spilok

Investment in FSX. Really?

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I have been an FSX fan since it's inception.  I have rejected Xplane and anything else that presumes it is better.  After many hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars invested in FSX, I have to ask this question:  Should I invest another PENNY in a sim that is on its way out?  By this I mean that Microsoft is not interested in supporting this sim at all, and the future is 64bit simming.

I have therefore invested my money (hard earned) in a sim that supports 64 bit, and that is Prepar3dv4.1.  I know that is an investment in the sim itself, but the future, I believe is there.   From now on, every PENNY that I spend will be with a developer who believes in this wonderful hobby that I've used for over 20 years.

As a former businessman, now retired, I believe that pouring good money into bad has always been a bad decision.  I have decided to permanently delete FSX from my computer and move into the future.  AND the future is a 64 bit system.  After flying P3d for over 2 months now, it is my sim of choice, and it is INCREDIBLE.  No more OOM's and scenery as far as the eye can see with no blurries. 

Now I am a happy simmer....FINALLY.

Stan

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Stan,

I understand your decision but why would you throw away (delete) FSX when it is fully add-on, fnctional and you have enjoyed it for years? Unless you have a limited amount of disk space, why not keep it and fly it occasionally with whatever is your favouite FSX aircraft. 

I know P3D. XPlane and even (maybe) FSW are the future but to uninstall everything you have loved for 20 years seems a little hasty.

I have no idea what your system is or is capable of, I have no idea what your financial resources are, and where you want to be in five years time (with our hobby) and I wish you the very best with your new sim (I have never been able to fly FSX with my set up, by the way) The above is just an opinion of mine and possibly to be regarded as a suggestion only. 

I really wish I could be as happy wth P3D as you obviously are. For now I guess I stay with FS2004 as my main simulator and fly P3d and XPlane with a single monitor occassionally. Both are great sims by the way but will not run 6 monitors satisfactorily as does FS2004, and that, unfortunately for me, is my preferred set up.

Cheers to all

Tony

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I'm not sure I'd describe money spent on a hobby as an "investment"... but like Stan I have recently moved from FSX to P3Dv4, and I'm also happy with the change.  V4 (and now 4.1) are really very, very good and we can only hope that the team at LM will continue with their improvements.  My only concern is that the product is being offered by a defense contractor... fickle souls those folks.  So just in case I awaken one morning to learn P3D is being shut down, I'll keep my beloved FSX discs safely tucked away.

Greg

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I've spent a couple thousand on FSX SE and recently purchased P3D v4. I'm keeping both, one reason I have all the PMDG Aircraft in FSX SE and will not buy them twice. The only exception will be the Majestic Dash-8 but that won't be a major expense.

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32 minutes ago, jetsmell said:

I've spent a couple thousand on FSX SE and recently purchased P3D v4. I'm keeping both, one reason I have all the PMDG Aircraft in FSX SE and will not buy them twice. The only exception will be the Majestic Dash-8 but that won't be a major expense.

I like what Majestic did by implementing a reasonable P3D upgrade fee, as they had to write a significant amount of code to make the add-on compatible with the 64-bit platform. Luckily, when I purchased my PMDG aircraft, I had already switched my add-on product purchases to P3D-compatible only so I was not stung with a repurchase. If one is planning on eventually moving into the 64-bit platform that is advancing by being supported with continuous development, then it does not make sense to dig a deeper financial hole by purchasing FSX-only products.

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I still invest in FSX since many of the things I buy for it have installers included for P3D at no extra charge. Plus the fact that I only have FSX, so I have no choice but to keep buying for it until I move to P3D at some point.

Im still happy with FSX, have no issues with it, so it will probably be another version or two before I move to P3D. I own darn near every major airport for it already, so there isn't much more for me to buy anyway.

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Whilst I am now largely inclined to buy new stuff for FSX only if it is either not available at all for P3D or XPlane or FSW, or if it is able to be installed in more than one simulator and one of those happens to be FSX, or if it is on sale via Steam. but having said that, like many, I've got pretty much everything which was worth having for FSX already, so realistically, buying choices for it are limited anyway, but there are still some.

A good example of that would be the QW 787, which I was fairly happy to buy for FSX recently in order to check it out and learn about it, since I knew very little about the real aeroplane. I bought it being fairly safe in the knowledge that a re-purchase for P3D would be discounted (admittedly this was an educated guess at the time of purchase, but it seems a good one since QW have now said that it will be discounted for dual platform buyers). The 787 is somewhat VAS hungry since it is a new and pretty complex add-on and that is a slight concern with it in FSX, but having said that, I've not had it actually run out of memory when flying it, so whilst it is on the ragged edge of VAS, it remains the only 787 you can get for an ESP-based flight sim unless one includes the very poor AFS one, which I think can be ported over, not that you'd want to.

It will literally be years before everything you can have in FSX will be available for P3D, as was the case with FS2004 to FSX and in fact there are, even now, some FS2004 add-ons which you can't get for any other sim and which are absolutely brilliant, i.e. the Aeroworx Beechcraft Super King Air B200 although fortunately, one of my big favourites in that regard eventually got an FSX conversion and went freeware too, this being the Supranov Designs Yakovlev Yak-40, which is still one of the best simulations, perhaps the best you can get of a Russian aeroplane, where the electrical systems are simulated accurately.

For me there are very many enhancements and add-ons which are FSX only and are sorely missed for P3D, i.e. the JF English Electric Lightning, and their Revolution X UK Autogen are just two of these, and of them, Revolution X makes P3D's UK Autogen scenery look like a joke in comparison, so when you have the DX10 fixer and cloud shadows on in FSX and have the phototerrain with Revolution X sat on top of it alongside the Power Project freeware, the UK looks way better in FSX than it does in P3D. Then there is the DodoSim Bell Bell 206 Jetranger, which is one of the best FS choppers, if not the best and which we don't have in P3D either. and whilst I was never personally that interested in the PMDG MD-11, I know a lot of people really wish that one was available for P3D in an updated form akin to their other airliners and it seems likely this will never happen.

So yeah, I'm glad that there are now a number of 64 bit flight sim choices and two of them are ESP-based, but so long as one can have stuff run okay in FSX-SE, there is still plenty of reason for it to be on my hard drive. But in any case I don't really regard flight sim stuff bought over the years as an 'investment', it's entertainment for the most part, yes I do use it for some training and stuff too, but when it comes to buying stuff for it, it's no more an investment than a round of drinks in a pub would be, i.e. I enjoy it and pay for it because I want it, but I don't wring my hands and moan if it gets surpassed by something else, especially when some of it actually hasn't been surpassed.

Lockheed Martin might like to think that P3D is the best combat training thing ever done for a PC, but if someone can show me a better F/A-18 sim than the Jane's one from 1999, or a better AH-64 sim than Gunship!, or a better B17G sim than the Mighty Eighth, or a better F-16 sim than Falcon, I'd be surprised, and most of those things are the best part of 20 years old. They might not look quite as flashy as a new 64 bit sim does, but they are all over P3D and every other flight sim when it comes to how good they are at what they do. LM could learn a thing or two from looking at those sims; nobody was complaining about FPS problems or VAS issues or the lighting in those things, they were too busy enjoying how brilliant they were (and still are).

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Prior to the release of v4, I tried all the versions of P3D and always chose to stick with FSX!

Not only is v4 a 64bit sim, but it performs much better than previous version and it looks better thanks to the new AA settings. As long as you use the right AA settings, you can even even get good performance & visuals with dynamic lighting on.

I have over 100 working addons in P3d v4 and most of my recent addon purchases have an installer for FSX, but there's no reason for me to go back to a sim that doesn't perform as well as p3d v4 and is plagued with OOM errors.

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It's the planes you fly.  For me additional investments into FSX now stopped as well, but I still have it to use my PMDG MD-11 and 747v2.  I don't even install complex airport sceneries, choosing instead to just use REX, REX HD airports and AFCAD.  So far it works well, smooth, no OOM.  I will be on P3Dv4 some day, but not until I see that my airplane add-ons that I care about are there. Right now they are the Flight 1 Mustang and B200.

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Before 64bits, I make a list of mine favorite-payware-addons (sceneries and aircrafts). Each day... a part of the list is upgraded. Now 80% is in v4... (with a planified budget $$$)

Great help comming from: http://www.theskylounge.tv/topic/5106-the-ultimate-p3d-v4-add-on-update-compatibility-list/. (many thanks)

But, perhaps some Milviz or others aircrafts are missing for ever because developpers work alone or in short teams... So, I decided to keep one sim alive in 32bits... Choice the p3dv3.4.

Yesterday, make transition between v4.0 and v4.1... and last installation look fast clean. Thanks to avsim peoples in topics with good advices.

 

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Just let FSX die a slow death.  It served the community well for many, many years even though Microsoft (Corporate) gave up on it almost immediately after release.  It has served many commercial developers very well and created new and lasting careers for many.  It is still providing a sizable income for many commercial developers as most of the FSX products are compatible with new products like P3D.  In fact, Lockheed Martin has stated and are proud to say their product is backward compatible for thousands of FSX products.  I still have the boxed version and use it occasionally, mainly to help others who can't afford or do not want to upgrade to P3D, FSW, or X-Plane.  It's amazing the discussions FSX has provided the community over the years and members liked it because they liked to tweak and many thought tweaking was good for FSX (which we now know is not required with the powerful computer systems released in the past five years or so).  It was fun trying to squeeze every ounce of performance out of it to try to make it the most realistic simulation of flight ever!  When a member posted a tweak they found from a so-called computer expert, everyone jumped and took notice anxious to see how great it would work.  Many would say, "finally, a tweak that provides 40 plus fps with max settings!!".  Then it would crash and members looked for more tweaks or complained to the developers for putting so much eye-candy into the product it wouldn't work on their system!  We all learned a lot about computers and their capabilities with FSX.  The new kids on the block, those who are just getting involved in flight simulation, know that all game settings in Warlords, Dark Souls, etc., are set to the max for the best visuals so they strongly believe the same must be for FSX and are disappointed when they get unexplained freezes or crashes.  It will eventually die but I believe there is a few more years of life in FSX and especially FSX-SE.  Let the investing continue!

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It's very ironic that at a time when pc storage costs are insignificant( I purchased a 2T HD for $40), some folks feel that they need to make a decision as life changing as when one moves from one house to another.

I am having the fun of my life keeping everything and not worrying about these decisions.

In a time when there's more than one sim to choose from, all with their unique strengths and weaknesses, I feel privileged to have them all.

No regrets whatsoever.

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I have to admit, my thinking is very much along the lines of Stan also. I have recently gone across to P3D V4.1 and got rid of my FSX install. I too have invested 7 years worth of cash, mostly with virtually all of Orbx sceneries. The upside of all this is that all the Orbx sceneries that I own, are/will be, available, free of charge to current customers. The likes of FSDT and FlyTampa have also followed suit. As for Aerosoft, there are a few free updates and a few to be paid for updates, but I didn't make the decision word not allowed of the fact that there would be some cost to moving across to a 64bit platform. In my mind, the cost is worth it. I couldn't go back to FSX, even if it was still on my PC and someone paid me! I hated the popping autogen and blurries, not to mention stuttery scenery whenever I tried to run anything half decent on the sliders. Having said all that, moving to P3d has come at a price, as I made the decision early on that if I was going to do so, I would try to deck the cards in my favour as much as possible in regards to performance. The year started with a new rig build, based on i7-6700 @ 4500Ghz, solid RAM and a GTX1080ti. At this moment in time I am very happy.

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How come all of these discussions regarding P3D end up in the FSX forum?  As a FSX user, I really could care less.

If P3D ever intrigues me I'll visit the P3D forum.  Same with X-Plane, FSW, etc.

Ernie

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Primarily Ernie.....because it IS a discussion about FSX.  It is hopefully, a little enlightenment regarding my humble opinion, and the opinion of others.  Please don't feel I'm abandoning FSX; I simply have decided to trade the "old car" in, and get a "new car".   This car has all the new, optional equipment that my old car didn't have.  I can see all the way down the road CLEARLY.  There are no shimmering, fuzzy, pieces of scenery.  When driving, it's imperative to see clearly, isn't it?

And...my new car has all the new safety equipment on it that prevents a "crash".  I've crashed my old car so much that all the fixing (tweaking), and visiting new mechanics (like Nvidia Inspector) couldn't keep it together any more.  The new car technology prevents crashing, for the most part.

Oh, I have a computer that is fully capable of having 3 sims or more on it (Jetline Systems), but if I don't feel like driving my old car anymore, then it's time to say "good-bye" and trade her in.

See, Ernie....it IS a discussion about my old car being replaced by a new one.  We've all done that before, haven't we?

Stan

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Still plenty of life left in FSX, it has done amazingly well for a product that was launched over a decade ago and even when i fly it today it amazes me what awesome products we have from the likes of ORBX and A2A. I showed a friend the steam edition just running ORBX global on my non sim pc and he has decided to join the hobby :)

I have dabbled with P3D in the past but until it runs as smooth as FSX on a single monitor at 1920x1080 locked at 30FPS (don't have a 30Hz monitor) with no stutter and the AA is as good without having to use nvidia inspector to eliminate shimmering I am going to continue to purchase products for the old sim

 

 

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I have been a loyal FSX fan for many years, and still love to fly my F33 Bonanza with RXP FLT/FLN gauges in the cockpit.

But, and this is a biggie.. Now that I have P3DV4 running nicely and smoothly, yes, as smoothly and pretty as FSX, without Nvidia Inspector, on a 1920X1080 monitor (but with fps set to unlimited, because P3D likes that better..)

Now that I have all that, I cannot live with the "popping up" of autogen buildings and trees in FSX anymore..

It just destroys the sense of "being there"..  It was always a pet peeve of mine, but now I have an alternative  :cool:

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I totally agree with the OP. I personally meant what I said to myself and here, I will never go back to 32 bit flight simming.

I just completed a flight in P3D 4.1 from LSZH to YMML (17 hours) using the PMDG 777LR, and many popular add-ons Hi Fi, Orbx Global, RC4.3, with very high settings and not one problem.....never going back because 32-bit would never allow this.   

 

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I can't imagine simming with out my PMDG airliners and I am not going to spend the $500 it would cost to replace them in P3D. That in addition to the $$200 for a sim license I have doubts about the legality of my using it for my intended purpose.

I bought most of my add-ons before I retired. Now with all the time I have to sim it is my primary joy. Not to mention signing into AVSIM several times a day. For that reason I do consider the money I spent over the years a good investment . Bought a new rig last month and FSX Steam runs and looks great. I know what my rig can handle and have my settings accordingly. So yes, I consider the money I put in FSX a good investment for my old age.

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I don't think I'll ever 'get' the desire to commit to and use a single sim.  Even if you choose to only buy addons for one platform going forward (I totally get that), I can't see the logic in deleting software that has all that investment in it, and that can still provide much enjoyment.   I'm a P3Dv4.1 user too - love it - but I'd never 'delete' FSX.   What's to gain in that? (except disk space).

I bought the NGX for P3Dv4.1 but as much as I love the NGX, soon regretted all that money spent on a product that for me, is indistinguishable from it's counterpart in FSX.    Thus, when I fly the PMDG T7 and 747 QOTS II, it's in FSX.  

The bonus is that, unlike with a "P3Dv4 only" philosophy, I also get to fly the J41 and MD-11 !!

Not to mention that I'm still enjoying the MJC Q400, where P3D only users have been pining for it (and the same with the FSL A320, although as of this week, I have that in P3Dv4.1 too).  Most of my flying is in P3Dv4 and XP11 but I still love FSX and there are experiences and products I get to enjoy in FSX that P3D and XP11 can't provide.

Relationships with sim platforms do not need to be monogamous!  :biggrin:

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While I do have and use p3d v4.x as my main sim, I also use FSX from time to time. I have no problems using both. Those that stick with FSX have their reasons, and it is not my place, nor do I have any inclination, to criticize it. I also assume that most people who visit AVSIM on a somewhat consistent basis are at least aware of the other options that out there and the benefits they provide. If not, inevitably they will come across these things because it seems to show up in so many different threads in which alternate platforms are even brought up. Use what you want to use and enjoy!

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Hello all again,

Lots of great points being made here and largely they are ALL relevant.

I look at Flight sim and each platform differently, as, I would guess most of us do. I believe that they should be treated like personal relationships.  The time to get out of them is when there is no contribution, enjoyment or growth. FSX FSX-SE and FS2004 are certainly getting to that stage but are not there yet and for a lot of individual preference reasons.

Someone here said, and I paraphrase, that with todays storage costs there is no need to get rid of anything. I believe that he has hit the nail on the head.

As with long-term and indeed all, relationships, there are always good memories involved. Old sim platforms could probably be looked at in the same way as photos and it is always good to revisit. 

I understand anyone wanting to make a fresh start regardless of the costs involved, but deleting forever, a flightsim is like throwing away photos, particularly when the cost of keeping them is so small.  

We are all thinking individually and this is well reflected in the opinions of this post.  The really great thing about it is that it is being discussed very well and certainly not heatedly.

Well done all

Regards

Tony

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I agree with Tony.  However, FS9 is still viable for simmers.  It has way fewer OOM's than FSX.  We could go back even further.   Bill Gates once said, "If it ain't broke.......BREAK it!"   What he meant by that was that if you keep what's not broken, no progress occurs.  If we lived by the "If it ain't broke, I'll keep using it", then we can go back to the horse and buggy as well.

Just trying to get a good discussion going here.

 

Stan

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31 minutes ago, spilok said:

I agree with Tony.  However, FS9 is still viable for simmers.  It has way fewer OOM's than FSX.  We could go back even further.   Bill Gates once said, "If it ain't broke.......BREAK it!"   What he meant by that was that if you keep what's not broken, no progress occurs.  If we lived by the "If it ain't broke, I'll keep using it", then we can go back to the horse and buggy as well.

Just trying to get a good discussion going here.

 

Stan

When someone has spent a lot of money on stuff for one sim, it's a big and unpalatable cost to be buying it for another one. That's why I'm a fan of companies which will discount purchases for users making that switch to another sim version of a product, or even make a dual installer, or offer some other concession.

I don't expect developers to work for nothing and neither should anyone else, but I do think some of them shoot themselves up the tailpipe by not offering any discount to such users, since let's say half the income of a full-price sale of a P3D version in your bank account from people who've put you where you are in buying your FSX version at full price, is far better than no money from them at all because they resent paying the same price again when a good percentage of what they are buying is not any different from something they've already paid for. In many cases with FS add-ons, the 3D models and textures may well be identical, much of the flight modeling is identical, the manual is pretty much identical, all of the research necessary to produce the thing originally has already been done, and so on. Yes the gauges might have to change depending on how they were made originally in order to function in a 64 bit sim and licensing often means there is some additional cost too, and you have to beta test a new sim version too (unless you are Carenado lol), so I certainly don't think anyone should feel they are owed everything for nothing, but a lot of the development cost has already been offset in sales of a product which contained a lot of the work already done, and to me it is just plain wrong to be pretending that isn't the case.

Not to mention this kind of thing carries a not inconsiderable goodwill aspect with it when it rewards product loyalty, which means the buyer is with you for anything you might subsequently develop because of their favourable impression of your company. So I don't blame some people for staying with FSX, or even FS2004 when that is not the case with some developers who offer no such concession, and most of you will know exactly which developers I'm talking about here, because there are some well known examples of some who don't do that at all, and I think they are being very shortsighted with regard to revenue and goodwill.

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