Randazzo from PMDG on demand for P3D products

[Ronaldo1978 26]

29 minutes ago, cowpatz said:

I guess, like a lot of other simmers, we are waiting for LM to show us their hand. If they communicated their intent (as in a proposed development roadmap perhaps) then it would give us (and developers) an idea of whether or not it is worthwhile continuing investment in P3D. Their lack of communication may not be "hurting" them but it sure is for those associated with them.
At present I'm playing a waiting game. I purchase very few P3D addons because I can no longer be assured that the developers will update their product line with the next P3D dot point upgrade. Hardly surprising then that P3D addon sales are way down.

So I remain on P3D4.5. I need a PC upgrade to go to V5 (with all the issues of choosing what hardware is needed and what is, or will soon be available), and MSFS is not yet mature enough to meet my tubeliner needs and the massive bandwidth required for enforced updates is an issue without a fibre connection.

 

My concern_ I'm not sure with an ongoing conflict in Eastern Europe, resources at LM might be need elsewhere and the development cycle of P3D might be reduced even further for the time being.

[FrankSalo 272]

32 minutes ago, Ronaldo1978 said:

My concern_ I'm not sure with an ongoing conflict in Eastern Europe, resources at LM might be need elsewhere and the development cycle of P3D might be reduced even further for the time being.

Since P3D is the basis of their training setups that go along with aircraft sales I think it would motivate them to push development at an accelerated rate. 

[Tim_Capps 474]

1 hour ago, cowpatz said:

whether or not it is worthwhile continuing investment in P3D

This is a real question, because I may not have considered something, but how does whatever LM does in the future impact me? I have everything I need in a platform that is more than I ever expected to see. I'm standing pat on 5.2, not because I don't believe people who say 5.3 is a bit better, but because it's just not worth whatever effort and small risk upgrading entails. I don't anticipate anything down the road that would be big enough to demand I upgrade if it meant losing something I enjoy now. Most of the stuff I fly isn't going to see further development. The little that probably will--I can think of the iFly 737NG and nothing else--is still just fine the way it is.

I understand other people have other priorities and are willing to keep up with the latest. This has always been part of flight simulation. I can't speak for them. If Microsoft decided to root around in their couch cushions for the loose change to buy LM (yes, Microsoft is that big) and end P3D, I don't see how that would effect me playing with more airplanes and airport combinations than I could ever finish if I lived to be 100. What will affect me is the loss of talent in freeware and repaints, but I think that's inevitable anyway. And it won't affect me much, given everything I have. Guess I may have to learn to live without that Austral Lineas Aereas BAC One Eleven 400.

We act like we live and die by developers. Not now. There's too much loose already in the wild and P3D is a mature platform right now. Who doesn't love a good horse race? Especially if you've bet a bundle on the 20-1 P3D pony heh heh heh

[psolk 3,040]

3 hours ago, JRMurray said:

^^^This ^^^

The post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy in a nutshell. Basically ... "A happened before B, therefore A caused B."

There is not a single developer disagreeing with what RSR said though.  In fact just about every FS developer/Publisher seems to be in agreement with his messaging even if not to the same degree. It's not like RSR and PMDG are in an exclusive club here.  

And to others, no, FSX could not do everything FS9 did day 1 nor could P3D even do everything FS9 could do day 1 because the premise of staying with FS9 was specific add-ons not being available in FSX or P3D, sunk investment and performance of said add-ons with full AI and details turned up.  In some cases in took years for the same FS9 add-on to be available in FSX or P3D, even longer for performance with said add-ons to be on par and heck it's only 5.3 that people are talking about exceptional performance in P3D and being able to really max out the settings.  For years and for many even today there is a performance vs quality decision to be made that sticking with FS9 alleviated.  Then there were the licensing aspects of P3D coming from FSX, it was not all rose colored lenses the way some seem to remember.  

Those that stuck with FS9 for all the reasons above sounded "very similar" to those describing why they want to stick with P3D. (Myself included LOL) 

15 years later but the conversation remains the same, even the part about development drying up in Fs9 and the emotional response from the hold-outs despite the obvious writing on the wall.   Emotions don't run businesses, revenue and profits do.  

FS has always been a VERY niche market, MSFS mainstreamed it and apparently in doing so some developers have found income streams the likes of which they have never seen before.  Good for them and I don't fault them for pivoting their business to adapt to the market.  

[Patco Lch 1,465]

What saddens me kinda is the division of the community. The biggest rawls use to be which version of P3D was best and a small amount of xplane rivalry. Seems like MS has dropped a bomb that splattered us all over the place. A little like the dissolution of the states long ago. Not saying that’s good or bad, just sad.

[Tim_Capps 474]

29 minutes ago, psolk said:

I don't fault them for pivoting their business to adapt to the market.

Nor do I. But I'm not sure the FS9 argument is quite the same. FSX was a development from FS9, as most of us here (I mean likely to read this) remember. I think the difference is we are seeing a true bifurcation in the hobby and a split of, as you observed, a small niche hobby. I understand your argument from one perspective and agree that there are similarities. But I own MSFS. I don't see it as a development, but something more like the difference between FSX and X-Plane. And it's not every dev. Definitely some more than others. And I still think we should consider the interests of anyone who comments on the viability of P3D. If you're betting the farm on MSFS, that's fine. Stop gaslighting about P3D and move on. But here I am, sucked into yet another discussion by a handful of people who are driving it. Maybe a "developers on the dismal future of P3D" subforum could be opened and we could read about P3D here, rather than what somebody says about P3D's demise. I think I'm done with these discussions. Maybe I'm living in a pretend world where everything is great. It would fit in with pretending to be a mighty airline pilot who is this very moment plying the skies between Buenos Aires and Sao Paulo--from the right seat, no less, because for some reason if I look at my mouse wrong my CAPTAIN FLOATS OUT OF THE AIRPLANE and watches safely from the port wingtip.

29 minutes ago, psolk said:

FS has always been a VERY niche market, MSFS mainstreamed it

I think that remains to be seen. It will either mainstream it (I don't think so, but maybe) or just split that "VERY niche market" into two less profitable branches.

And I agree 100% (except C------ S--- could trigger people, too.)

23 minutes ago, Patco Lch said:

What saddens me kinda is the division of the community. The biggest rawls use to be which version of P3D was best and a small amount of xplane rivalry. Seems like MS has dropped a bomb that splattered us all over the place. A little like the dissolution of the states long ago. Not saying that’s good or bad, just sad.

[psolk 3,040]

18 minutes ago, Patco Lch said:

What saddens me kinda is the division of the community. The biggest rawls use to be which version of P3D was best and a small amount of xplane rivalry. Seems like MS has dropped a bomb that splattered us all over the place. A little like the dissolution of the states long ago. Not saying that’s good or bad, just sad.

I guess I am the only one who remembers "FSX is only for VFR flying FS9 is for hardcore simmers who want detailed add-ons at add-on airports with 100% AI" arguments that have transpired with every iteration of FS. 

Simmers do not do well with change LOL   I went from FS9 to P3d V4.5, that's how long I resisted and @Tim_Capps that also renders the "P3D is dead" conversation irrelevant.  My Fs9 never stopped working despite it never progressing with updates... That's the big point here, P3D development could very well be "frozen" at these version levels but that is far from dead as the sim is great today properly added-on up.  

[Iadbound 211]

I’ve learned one thing from this thread: I probably represent approximately 10% of all P3D sales in 2021! Joking - but maybe only a bit. I bought P3D around February 2021 with the intention of flying the FSLabs products and before long I had bought most of the PMDG products, Maddog, A2A C172, Q400, iFly 737, GSX, Active Sky, AI Lights, Chaseplane, and a decent chunk of airports and random scenery, and a utility or two. I don’t regret it and I hope P3D remains viable. Regardless, I also look forward to well done releases in XP (like the CL650) and MSFS. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Iadbound

[d.tsakiris 418]

5 hours ago, psolk said:

FSX could not do everything FS9 did day 1

I believe people are talking about the sims themselves, not considering add-ons. IIRC, FSX could do all FS9 could do.

[BostonJeremy77 519]

4 hours ago, Iadbound said:

I’ve learned one thing from this thread: I probably represent approximately 10% of all P3D sales in 2021! Joking - but maybe only a bit. I bought P3D around February 2021 with the intention of flying the FSLabs products and before long I had bought most of the PMDG products, Maddog, A2A C172, Q400, iFly 737, GSX, Active Sky, AI Lights, Chaseplane, and a decent chunk of airports and random scenery, and a utility or two. I don’t regret it and I hope P3D remains viable. Regardless, I also look forward to well done releases in XP (like the CL650) and MSFS. 

I am in exact same boat. I bought P3D in January of 2021 and bought basically all the amazing aircraft out there and a ton of Orbx products. 

[SimeonWilbury 220]

Just wanted to quickly return to the PMDG side of discussion

20 hours ago, virtuali said:

If you want to see some sales from FSX/P3D products, you must do something with pricing. As an example, when GSX came out in 2012, in addition of being vastly less capable than it is now, it used to cost 39$, while today it's 24$ and you can get it bundled with the Level 2 Expansion for 34$. KLAX ( our current best selling scenery ) came out for 39$, today it's 18$ and everything made before 2010, it's now 9.99$, this before any periodic sale so, on average, we basically halved prices for products that has been out for years.

Price is important.

This got me thinking, am I incorrect in recalling that when the 777-200ER expansion came out last year that at the same time PMDG also raised the price for the base-pack of the 777? I seem to remember that happening. Not sure if that was a good decision in retrospect given the lack of promised upgrades.

Price is definitely one of the factors why I haven't bought the 777 yet. Though I do say so as someone firmly-wedded to the 747.

Edited February 10, 2022 by SimeonWilbury

[G-RFRY 1,712]

9 hours ago, Ronaldo1978 said:

My concern_ I'm not sure with an ongoing conflict in Eastern Europe, resources at LM might be need elsewhere and the development cycle of P3D might be reduced even further for the time being

HA-HA!!! LM spend more on marketing than MS on MSFS 

 

59 minutes ago, SimeonWilbury said:

Price is definitely one of the factors why I haven't bought the 777 yet. Though I do say so as someone firmly-wedded to the 747.

So you missed the Black Friday sale 21% off .

[jon b 2,050]

There’s a slow build up of interest now in VR in the area of civilian flight training , as there has been for some time already  in military flight training. There was a very interesting presentation at the flight sim expo by a USAF training pilot on their use of VR, if you’ve not seen it, the USAF are phasing out their actual T-1A Jayhawk training aircraft completely  and they will be replaced by a VR training syllabus.

P3D and in some cases I believe  DCS I are the platforms  being used for this new VR training.

I can’t see MSFS being used anytime soon as a real world training platform, certainly not in its current state, maybe a few years down the line. At present it is just not stable enough. You can’t have students turning up for a VR training slot at 11am to be told the sim requires an 80GB mandatory update, sorry can you come back tomorrow.

So I’m certain the P3D platform will remain alive and well as it’s use is increasing rapidly in  real world training . The question is will we as enthusiasts be able to get our hands on the advanced add on aircraft  made for the P3D training  platform or not. I’m thinking about the milviz T-38C as an example which was developed for a military training program and initially offered to the public before being withdrawn from public sale. I would imagine if such aircraft are made available they may well be at a much higher price than we are used to.

As it stands at the moment I get airborne from Heathrow in P3D and VR with the whole of the U.K. in orbx true earth , EA and active sky on , and the simulation running so smoothly that it replicates the experience of a level D simulation and I think to myself what more could I possibly want.

So sadly it looks like development of high end enthusiast level aircraft for P3D might be drying up, but the simulation platform itself will continue to be developed, but even if things remain static with regards to add ons it’s still an incredibly powerful and stable simulation as it is.

Personally I can now see XP 11 and XP 12 taking up the mantle as the simulation enthusiasts choice for complex aircraft simulation. A recent flurry of high end aircraft have been developed and released for XP like the Q400, 747-200 and the CL650 which have not only raised the bar for what’s now possible on XP but for PC simulation as a whole. The CL650 in particular is truly ground breaking.

There are just a few loose ends I hope developers tie up before they run away from P3D for good , like the updates for the PMDG 747 and QW 787 for example.

 

[micstatic 4,319]

It’s sad that on paper I’m one of those buyers that developers would say have stopped buying for p3d. In reality I’ve already bought just about everything of interest. Tons of stuff. I haven’t stopped buying. Developers have stopped making. 
 

this is also the first time I can recall not migrating fully to a new sim because of missing features and general lack of quality in certain areas I like best. In the past I only delayed upgrades because of computer performance not being able to get high enough sim performance. 

[787flyer 633]

1 hour ago, G-RFRY said:

So you missed the Black Friday sale 21% off .

There's still hope left yet!

I believe PMDG celebrates their 25th birthday this year, so perhaps there a a chance of a 25% discount too! 🤞