20 hours ago, MarkW said:

Its a shame we can't have a Fenix like A330.  I think the Headwind project with FBW is probably better than this.  I was on a short flight yesterday from YUL to YYZ on Air Canada's A330.  Its just shocking how large this aircraft is when you are used to flying on A320's.  The size just never seems to translate to the sim, but still wish we had one.

I believe us traditional simmers who want the immersion of a study level aircraft are kind of stuck with a new market of younger folks just getting into it that are used to other types of "gaming." I mean look at asobo/msfs making xbox a priority and all the other stuff they do such as prioritizing landmarks over sim stability.  And this goes to what you're saying about quality aircraft such as the fenix a320.  Developers like them and pmdg has had to work really hard to integrate these products into the way the platform is designed.  I'm in high hopes that things will get better over time for us traditional simmers. 

19 minutes ago, Saucey12 said:

I believe us traditional simmers who want the immersion of a study level aircraft are kind of stuck with a new market of younger folks just getting into it that are used to other types of "gaming." I mean look at asobo/msfs making xbox a priority and all the other stuff they do such as prioritizing landmarks over sim stability.  And this goes to what you're saying about quality aircraft such as the fenix a320.  Developers like them and pmdg has had to work really hard to integrate these products into the way the platform is designed.  I'm in high hopes that things will get better over time for us traditional simmers. 

agreed, 100 percent.  in my opinion ms2020 was always going to have to appeal to gamers and not simmers.  theres a big difference.  theres no money in simmers, there is in gamers.

i remember years ago there was supposed to be more people using bus and farm simulator than there was using fsx/p3d.  

kids buy tie fighters,  adults buy fsl and pmdg etc etc.

Edited April 19, 20233 yr by fluffyflops

1 hour ago, Saucey12 said:

I believe us traditional simmers who want the immersion of a study level aircraft are kind of stuck with a new market of younger folks just getting into it that are used to other types of "gaming." I mean look at asobo/msfs making xbox a priority and all the other stuff they do such as prioritizing landmarks over sim stability.  And this goes to what you're saying about quality aircraft such as the fenix a320.  Developers like them and pmdg has had to work really hard to integrate these products into the way the platform is designed.  I'm in high hopes that things will get better over time for us traditional simmers. 

Sorry that's just not true and seems to be prevalent as a silly conspiracy theory that keeps surfacing repeatedly.  Just because MS/Asobo intend to cater to a wider audience than the traditional simmers doesn't mean XBox has been the "priority" or that they have "prioritized landmarks over sim stability". So serious simmers who want high fidelity aircraft have to be non-young and/or non-xbox? That's some naiveté to put it mildly lol.

What particular difficulties have Fenix had due to MS/Asobo supposedly prioritizing these things? And PMDG's difficulties have been due to their *own* choice to deliver their aircraft to both the PC and XBox platforms and the MSFS marketplace, *while* also using their legacy C++ codebase, which then confined them to a certain development path and to certain software frameworks which were not fully supported in MSFS as other more native ways. While trying to welcome in more general or not-as-experienced simmers, MSFS has always been all about catering to Serious Simmers ™️ given the kind of content and enhancements that have come out in various sim updates, aircraft & avionics updates, free high fidelity add-ons etc, etc... and yes, they also keep beefing up the landmarks, world representation and visuals.  I'll take that all day and every day when a sim can cater to multiple needs, it doesn't have to be either/or.
 

Edited April 19, 20233 yr by lwt1971

3 hours ago, Saucey12 said:

I believe us traditional simmers who want the immersion of a study level aircraft are kind of stuck with a new market of younger folks just getting into it that are used to other types of "gaming." I mean look at asobo/msfs making xbox a priority and all the other stuff they do such as prioritizing landmarks over sim stability.  And this goes to what you're saying about quality aircraft such as the fenix a320.  Developers like them and pmdg has had to work really hard to integrate these products into the way the platform is designed.  I'm in high hopes that things will get better over time for us traditional simmers. 

 

Cmon, not this argument again and again; that is just nonsense. I'm quite young myself, at 25. When I started with FSX, the first AddOn that I ever installed was a Project OpenSky Airbus with no VC; it was freeware, and beside the Ifly 747, no other good freeware was available at the time.

Today, look at us: Inibuild A310, FBW A32NX and A38X, Synaptic A220, Headwind A330, HVX787 Salty 747, rumors about an A350 (although I'll believe it when I see it), countless moderators who did an absolutely amazing job improving GA planes like the TBM, the C172, and the C152. Some guys (WT) made the default CJ4 and avionics so great they got hired by MS to improve all things avionics-related in the sim. Thanks to those guys, now we have the best default avionics suit we've ever seen in a sim. The younger me playing FSX couldn't ever dream about what you have now.

MSFS is only 2 years old, so the developer has to rebuild everything from scratch; they can't build upon what was available on P3D. Now let me ask you this: What have been done in FSX or XPlane 10/11 two years after their release? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the NGX was released in 2012, six years after the release of FSX. We waited even longer for the FSlabs A320. Here in MSFS, we got the FENIX and PMDG 737 18 months after the release of the sim. Just imagine how far we will be in four years from now.

The best thing is that the content available on this platform just keeps getting better month after month. IniBuild, FlyTampa, NZA, ORBX, and GAYA are pushing the limit with every release. Same goes for aircraft. Really, I've never seen a platform with so much dynamism as MSFS has, so many projects are being announced. I'm currently waiting for the ATR next week and to see the progress Synaptic made with their A220.

Be honest, look at what is available, respect the hard work the guys are putting into incredible projects, enjoy what you have, and keep your eyes and mind open about what is to come.

On the subject of the Aerosoft A330, Aerosoft clearly stated what it will be and what it won't be. I'm waiting for it and will buy it. It will keep me untertained, and I know I will also learn a lot with it until Fenix decides to work on the A330.

 

Edited April 19, 20233 yr by cyril972
Edit: wrote this in a rush, so many mistakes where made, sorry about that😭

I just wish they would do the other engine types. 

I think it would be not that bad - lets wait and see..

cheers 😉

12 hours ago, fluffyflops said:

agreed, 100 percent.  in my opinion ms2020 was always going to have to appeal to gamers and not simmers.  theres a big difference.  theres no money in simmers, there is in gamers.

i remember years ago there was supposed to be more people using bus and farm simulator than there was using fsx/p3d.  

kids buy tie fighters,  adults buy fsl and pmdg etc etc.

Gamers of today are simmers of the future. I have started as a kid with FS 5.1 and had no idea, for instance, how to use the autopilot. I believe it was just with FSX that I really started to get the hang of things. Today, with YouTube and Twitch, I expect this jump to happen much, much faster.

Besides, was the A330 from Aerosoft or many others more "arcady" titles not available for P3D as well? Is MSFS not the #1 platform for PMDG already? FSLabs has all but confirmed they are working on planes for MSFS...

In summary, I believe that, with MSFS, we are getting the best of both worlds: not only we have an actively maintained and updated platform that has improving support for high-end add-ons, but also we get the goodies of a modern gaming title like amazing graphics, DLSS3 and FG support, DLCs (some of them free, btw) etc, etc...

Edited April 20, 20233 yr by GCBraun

I am not excited and will not be purchasing anything from Aerosoft again. Why?  Between their release and forget policies and terrible customer service....the crj was kind of cool but now its overpriced for what you get. No thanks.

I will sum it up as they do in their forums when they want to stop answering questions.

"Seeing how this topic was answered this thread is now closed. If you have any....etc etc"

I believe MSFS was targeted more towards gamer's in general, not simmer's nor xbox user's. The only thing MSFS has over p3d and x-plane 12 is eye candy. I am in no way a real pilot, But pmdg for instance doesn't behave correctly in MSFS like it does in P3D. Systems for instance are far more realistic in p3d than MSFS, That's why I see MSFS  more as a game than a simulator. Lnav and Vnav for instance doesn't function right in MSFS. The pmdg 737 was the only aircraft i could really compare with. I am very much looking forward to the pmdg 777, But if it doesn't behave like in p3d, They can keep it. I want the full systems experience with pmdg products in MSFS like p3d. I can only hope p3d has something in the works for a future sim. I can only hope MSFS and pmdg get things sorted. With the pmdg 737 if i wanted to use auto land, it's extremely hit and miss with my experience with MSFS anyway. With p3d I am able to land every single time.

15 minutes ago, Patriot3810 said:

Systems for instance are far more realistic in p3d than MSFS, That's why I see MSFS  more as a game than a simulator. Lnav and Vnav for instance doesn't function right in MSFS

Why do people write utter nonsense like this?

Btw, this thread is about the upcoming Aerosoft A330.

18 minutes ago, Patriot3810 said:

I believe MSFS was targeted more towards gamer's in general, not simmer's nor xbox user's. The only thing MSFS has over p3d and x-plane 12 is eye candy. I am in no way a real pilot, But pmdg for instance doesn't behave correctly in MSFS like it does in P3D. Systems for instance are far more realistic in p3d than MSFS, That's why I see MSFS  more as a game than a simulator. Lnav and Vnav for instance doesn't function right in MSFS. The pmdg 737 was the only aircraft i could really compare with. I am very much looking forward to the pmdg 777, But if it doesn't behave like in p3d, They can keep it. I want the full systems experience with pmdg products in MSFS like p3d. I can only hope p3d has something in the works for a future sim. I can only hope MSFS and pmdg get things sorted. With the pmdg 737 if i wanted to use auto land, it's extremely hit and miss with my experience with MSFS anyway. With p3d I am able to land every single time.

I strongly disagree with you in just about everything in you post, but you are, of course entitled, to your opinion. Although, please refrain from generalizing your opinion or stating your own subjective views as facts.

I am curious though, besides the weather-radar which doesn't function in MSFS, what functions do you think is "not behaving as in P3D" and why? I've never had issues with the PMDG in MSFS,

Edited April 20, 20233 yr by anden145

1 hour ago, Patriot3810 said:

I p3d I am able to land every single time.

Thoughts overcoming facts is a marker of our times, I suppose, Anyway, are you kind of a masochist to still play with MSFS when P3D is so much better 😅 ? 

Edited April 20, 20233 yr by Dominique_K

1 hour ago, Patriot3810 said:

I believe MSFS was targeted more towards gamer's in general, not simmer's nor xbox user's. The only thing MSFS has over p3d and x-plane 12 is eye candy. I am in no way a real pilot, But pmdg for instance doesn't behave correctly in MSFS like it does in P3D. Systems for instance are far more realistic in p3d than MSFS, That's why I see MSFS  more as a game than a simulator. Lnav and Vnav for instance doesn't function right in MSFS. The pmdg 737 was the only aircraft i could really compare with. I am very much looking forward to the pmdg 777, But if it doesn't behave like in p3d, They can keep it. I want the full systems experience with pmdg products in MSFS like p3d. I can only hope p3d has something in the works for a future sim. I can only hope MSFS and pmdg get things sorted. With the pmdg 737 if i wanted to use auto land, it's extremely hit and miss with my experience with MSFS anyway. With p3d I am able to land every single time.

Nonsense again, I also have to disagree with everything written here. 

PMDG planes always had a not so great LNAV and VNAV they always acknowledged this and promised an update for it. I don’t know if this update finally came or not, I do not follow P3D news, but they ported their work on MSFS and if you know a thing or two about engineering, you know a PID will work the same to a given perturbation on MSFS and on P3D.

But remember P3D is a more controlled environment with lookup table no “true turbulences” no airmass simulation, If something should be compare to a game it would be P3D not MSFS. Therefore autopilot fonction need higher requirements they need to be almost flawless because they will as in real life, need to handle a lot of perturbations. 
 

Now PMDG themselves will tell you how they never released a better planes than their 737 on MSFS, 737NGDrivers and FlightDeck2Sim on YouTube two real life 737 pilote are having great fun explaining to you how similar the PMDG is to real life but also what are the differences, it’s really interesting to watch. I have to point out that FlightDeck2Sim for exemple wasn’t even using the 737 on P3D because it just wasn’t up to the Zibo 737 Xplane has, Now he use both explaining what is better on each side.

Now If you can explain to PMDG, 737Drivers and FlightDeck2Sim why the 737 was better on P3D, feel free to do so, I also want to learn from you I you have something to explain like those guys. As far as I know the weather radar is the only issue here, it will eventually comes to us, like It did on the previous platforms where it took time.

I also really want to know where this gamers argument is coming from, It doesn’t make sens but you guys keep saying this without any evidences. You know we had the Aerosoft CRJ and Twin Otter on P3D as well and both where better on MSFS, It will be the same for the A330. The A330 doesn’t pretend to be a flightSimLabs aircraft but it was the best A330 on P3D even Xplane did not have a better A330 at the time (though I don’t know how good is Xplane 12 default 330). I will welcome this A330 arms wide open, specially If it is at least as good as the P3D counterpart 

BTW, here is a review of the 330 on P3D by an Airbus pilote

remember we should at least expect that level of simulation and modeling

Edited April 20, 20233 yr by cyril972

1 hour ago, Patriot3810 said:

I believe MSFS was targeted more towards gamer's in general, not simmer's nor xbox user's. The only thing MSFS has over p3d and x-plane 12 is eye candy. I am in no way a real pilot, But pmdg for instance doesn't behave correctly in MSFS like it does in P3D. Systems for instance are far more realistic in p3d than MSFS, That's why I see MSFS  more as a game than a simulator. Lnav and Vnav for instance doesn't function right in MSFS. The pmdg 737 was the only aircraft i could really compare with. I am very much looking forward to the pmdg 777, But if it doesn't behave like in p3d, They can keep it. I want the full systems experience with pmdg products in MSFS like p3d. I can only hope p3d has something in the works for a future sim. I can only hope MSFS and pmdg get things sorted. With the pmdg 737 if i wanted to use auto land, it's extremely hit and miss with my experience with MSFS anyway. With p3d I am able to land every single time.

The part where you say “I am in no way a real pilot” therefore how would you know what a real 737 feels like. 
 

 

On 4/18/2023 at 5:20 AM, gabriel122 said:

Mathijs Kok, Project Manager at Aerosoft, has continuously said that they aim to deliver the experience of an airline pilot’s day-to-day job, rather than simulating the aircraft itself. As a result, they focus more on daily procedures, like opening the flight deck door, rather than rare events like N1 spiking.

“I simply have no idea what a ‘study level’ aircraft is. Honestly. No idea. I see it used a lot by marketing departments and YouTubers but I never see a real pilot calling any DLC ‘study level’.” He said this week in the company’s official forums. He added that even if they spent another three years on the A330, he would not call it ‘study level.’ Kok goes as far as advising those looking for a simulation of actual pilot training simulators to look elsewhere.

Lol. Mr. Kok is the gift that keeps on giving. 

The above paragraph is pure comedy gold.