4 hours ago, Abriael said:

This is something many tend to conveniently ignore. 99% of X-plane's non-payware planes are ridiculously bad for a simulator created by someone who brags so much about the flight model and realism. Most of their default aircraft are no more than toys.

MSFS started in a similar condition, but now it has a serious contingent of default aircraft that are very comparable to payware quality (and not low payware quality). 

Nope. You're conflating Systems & Avionics with flight model.

MSFS has the opposite challenge, tho they've come a long way towards correcting it.

Most of the Default addons in X-Plane are genuinely good/usable. "High Fidelity" payware-grade? No, but then no simulator other than MSFS has ever done that (and even then it's only a recent phenomenon in MSFS).

4 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Better cloud density, more cloud types and no "volcanic ash" clouds would be awesome. 

Jorg has said the new lighting traces the path through clouds more accurately, so one hope this translates into better cloud density and a goodbye to the volcanic ash clouds.  The water looked much better in screenshots so far, shared byJorg saying this improvement was down to the new lighting, not any improvements to the water itself.

47 minutes ago, Noel said:

Do we know the install size of the various editions of 2024 yet?

We don't even know what they are let alone size.

But Jorg said if you go full streaming, it might be around 50GB

Edited August 25, 20241 yr by Tuskin38

6 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

We don't even know what they are let alone size.

But Jorg said if you go full streaming, it might be around 50GB

Oh then sounds like there might be more than one option interesting.

36 minutes ago, ca_metal said:

I've never said the default fleet doesn't need work, I'm just saying that the default planes are the best compared to any other sim (default planes vs default planes). WT, Ini and also (to some extent) Asobo did a good job improving them since 2020. 

About the helos I agree. But that's not because the physics engine is inferior, it's just the platform doesn't have many developers interested on doing Helos. 

Ah - agreed then.

MSFS, especially now, is very good and getting better.

The helos will come along eventually. And considering how poorly they "flew" in the previous MS flight sims, I'm pleased with the progress.

Their flight models might be the hardest of any to code. I think they're kinda like bumblebees - they're not really supposed to be able to fly 😉

Edited August 26, 20241 yr by UrgentSiesta

Y'all know I'm a big fan of 2020 and while I don't think it's flight model is arcade or horrible as some who like to fling hyperbole often say, but I'd be kidding myself if is said it was as good as X-Plane in that area. The consensus among real world pilots is that it isn't. 

That being said, I'm pretty confident that MS/Asobo will either lever the playing field or take the crown with 2024. We're already seeing things not possible in any other games happening in it so I'm really looking forward to what the beefed up CFD can really do 

23 minutes ago, Krakin said:

Y'all know I'm a big fan of 2020 and while I don't think it's flight model is arcade or horrible as some who like to fling hyperbole often say, but I'd be kidding myself if is said it was as good as X-Plane in that area. The consensus among real world pilots is that it isn't. 

That being said, I'm pretty confident that MS/Asobo will either lever the playing field or take the crown with 2024. We're already seeing things not possible in any other games happening in it so I'm really looking forward to what the beefed up CFD can really do 

I beg to disagree. It's not a consensus, altough you will find pilots defending both platforms. It depends on what aspect you focus. I'm part of several groups with RL pilots. It's anecdotal, but it's the best I can do for my assessments.

About improvements, sure, I also hope they improve the flight model, no FSim has a perfect flight model, all of them should improve in this regard.

Edited August 26, 20241 yr by ca_metal

2 hours ago, ca_metal said:

I beg to disagree. It's not a consensus, altough you will find pilots defending both platforms. It depends on what aspect you focus. I'm part of several groups with RL pilots. It's anecdotal, but it's the best I can do for my assessments.

About improvements, sure, I also hope they improve the flight model, no FSim has a perfect flight model, all of them should improve in this regard.

Well, I agree with you AND Krakin.

Mainly I think you hit the nail on the head with the subjective "focus on" aspect.

Some pilots want to see exactly the right numbers they're expecting to see. And systems that work exactly like the FCOM says they should, etc 

Some guys want that "feeling" of flight. Which is me because I don't get to fly IRL much at all, and when I do it's in bug smashers. So, yeah, I want to have to concentrate on coordinated level turns, I want that low speed floaty feeling. I want to feel the winds kicking my plane around, I want to struggle to keep the plane stable on final, etc.

Because that's what happens around my neck of the woods.

Anyhow, I like both sims, and different add-ons in each sim do different things for me, like you said, depending upon which aspect I choose to focus.

5 hours ago, ca_metal said:

I've never said the default fleet doesn't need work, I'm just saying that the default planes are the best compared to any other sim (default planes vs default planes). WT, Ini and also (to some extent) Asobo did a good job improving them since 2020.

Yup, the default planes in MSFS are some of the best default planes you can find in a sim. The iniBuilds A300, iniBuild A320, Working Title 747, Working Title 787, Working Title CJ4, Working Title Cirrus, etc, they are far above the level of fidelity of a default plane that you would expect.

Also, the default G1000, G3000, G5000, and G3X in MSFS are the best add-ons that you can get in a flight simulator. You can't even buy a better payware version.  And the default GNS 430 and GNS 530 are also very good. 

I’ve been very vocal about this sim over the years and critical of its performance especially on Xbox.

I was surprised a few weeks back when I took 3 days to reinstall everything on Xbox. The latest SU on Xbox seems very stable and I’ve had little to no ctds, no blurred textures and third party has been performing well. The only issue I’ve still seen is those changing tiles bugs.

However, what they been discussing for MSFS 20204 - I just can’t see how they are going to get it to perform especially on Xbox.

I mean they are talking about highly detailed environments, walking about outside your plane and anywhere on the map, better graphics, more environmental features, the lot. I think the Xbox might explode at this point. As for pc…

 

12 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Meh - unless you're primarily an airliner guy, many of the Defaults need a lot of work.

He never said all of the MSFS planes are amazing, he said MSFS has a better default fleet and that is true.

My plan is to wait a few weeks until the hotfixes are implemented.
Then scrub my PC clean of everything MSFS 2020.

Then update from Win 10 to Win 11.
And then install MSFS 2024.

Do we know when exactly 2024 will launch btw?

 I'm really enjoying this thread (in parts). Really ... 😁

On 8/24/2024 at 1:16 AM, VeryBumpy said:

Thinking of it differently, what features or expectations must FS2024 contain in order for you to be completely happy about dropping coin and side stepping into a very similar flight sim?

First: flight modeling. Second: flight modeling. Third: flight modeling. Fourth: ground behaviour. Fifth: thunderstorm behaviour. Sixth: Icing conditions behaviour. And so on ...

4 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

 I'm really enjoying this thread (in parts). Really ... 😁

First: flight modeling. Second: flight modeling. Third: flight modeling. Fourth: ground behavior. Fifth: thunderstorm behavior. Sixth: Icing conditions behavior. And so on ...

People keep mentioning flight model. Accurate or not, with the planes you fly, what in your opinion is wrong with the flight modeling?

I feel like the flight modeling is truly very good its just the feedback from flight is not visceral enough i.e. the sim needs both something like Accu-Feel and EZdok to provide proper plane reaction perception for everyone.

3 hours ago, Republic3D said:

Do we know when exactly 2024 will launch btw?

November 19th. It was at the end of the latest trailer.