15 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

I'll join the chorus of simmers on this thread to simply say that I've also used the other sim too extensively before MSFS came along.. and now with MSFS as it stands in 2024 along with the numerous high fidelity 3rd party and default aircraft available for it, I see no advantage in flight dynamics in other sims, except for ground handling and the ground<->air transition model. With a well developed aircraft and FM in the hands of the right developer, MSFS can be equally enjoyed for flight dynamics.. from the likes of the PMDG 777/737, iniBuilds A300, Fenix V2, default Citation Longitude, to many others.

Now re: the specific area of ground handling, with the improvements that came in MSFS 2020 SU15, in the aircraft that take advantage of the new FM parameters this is greatly improved IMO (as seen in the Fenix that has implemented this, the default G1000 C172, and the iniBuilds A300 as they demonstrated here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4cxNccH66U&t=1318s) .. and this was a partial backport of the fuller rework coming in MSFS 2024 so I eagerly await to see what that pans out to be, and hopefully they've addressed the ground<->air transition modelling too. Even for that, aircraft devs can choose to override with their own custom modelling like Fenix chose to do in the very latest update for the flare logic and ground effect.
 

the default ini A310s heft and weight is certainly simulated, where its inertia is obviously conveyed. In terms of it behaving "exactly the same" whether full or empty that either comes down to the specific FM for that bird not being modelled fully, or maybe due to the fly-by-wire control that handle the aircraft appropriately which then translates to no perceptible difference being observed by the pilot between light and heavy loads. If there truly is some incorrect behaviour that likely lies with the particular FM of the 310 where it doesn't react differently to different load weights.

The PMDG 777, iniBuilds A300, Fenix A320 V2/B2 etc all have been tested extensively by actual experts that have lauded their flight dynamics, their hand flying feel, etc (the likes of IRL pilots like V1-Simulations and 320 Sim Pilot who're type rated on these birds, long time simmers who've used all sims, and are as unbiased as they come). If you have videos or other evidence to prove your claim let's see them. But if all this is just based on your experience of the A310 that says nothing about the sim's flight dynamics in general.

See, this is the nice thing about Len. He always brings receipts and you gotta be on your toes! Much nicer to discuss items with him rather than some other folks who've recently barged in... 🙂

Len, like @ca_metal, you've hit on some key points that are readily apparent:

MSFS has proven capable of delivering a great flying experience, BUT it is up to the individual developers to take advantage of the sims capabilities.

Like I said over the weekend, I took the same two back to back flights in the XP Zibo and the PMDG 737. There were differences, sure, but nothing glaring, and I really enjoyed both flights (esp since I hand flew the entirety of both!). No point in delving into specifics as they run along the lines noted above and agreed on by many.

It's been a long time since I flew the A310 (sorry, i'm just not an Airbus guy 😉 ), but I do remember it flying quite nicely even on a slow final approach (which, IMHO, is one of the critical areas of determining how truly good an FM is). And IIRC, it did have a good feeling of heft/inertia.

As an avid X-Plane flyer and non-professional bug smasher pilot, I can honestly say I don't see any advantage in flying airliners in either sim. I.e., as you've said, I'll take the opinions of the guys who fly them IRL every week on which ones to get (and I gotta add a plug for https://www.youtube.com/@IntotheBlueSimulations, another IRL Airbus pilot who produces in-depth videos covering a broad swathe of addons (plus he jets off to the Mach Loop from time to time, which I love 🙂 ).

What I would really like to see in v2024 is more GA addons produced to level of fidelity of the BlackBird nee MilViz T-6A Texan II. That bird, from what I can tell, flies every bit as good as its counterpart in XP. It's simple to fly, but not easy to fly well...

And don't even get me started on the .mil jets. They don't fly well in either sim, which is a shame as the high mach view from a bubble canopy is beyond compare 🙂

I'm hoping that the new upgrades to the FM are embraced by the majority of 3PDs AND integrated to their existing addons in the new version of the sim.

Edited August 27, 20241 yr by UrgentSiesta
"grammer"

never had barely a stinking issue since that fateful day , August 2020 when it was released! Any issues were centered around my own bumbling or perhaps a de-activated XBOx live thing...otherwise it really is a flawless sim 4 years in a row... perfromance issues fixed wtih 4090 power baby.... a few stutters with live traffic loading is my only complaint... 

Just now, ca_metal said:

We can all agree @Abriael should interview Jörg about 2024 ASAP. He's always spot on. He asks the best questions.

Thanks for the kind words. Unfortunately he wasn't at Gamescom, so I missed that chance. Hopefully, another will come soon-ish. 

2 hours ago, Abriael said:

I expect the majority of developers to make their updates available for free, unless the amount of work required is massive. 

The reason is simply because most developers already provide radical updates of their scenery at no additional cost, and I don't expect the work required to update for MSFS2024 to surpass the work involved in these updates. The development cost is usually recouped by new sales granted by the fact that MSFS is popular (unlike other sims), so a lot of people continuously purchase airports even if they haven't been originally released today.

I expect only the developers who already release their "V2" updates without a free upgrade to ask their existing customers to pay for the FS2024 updates. 

I hope you're correct.  I think the majority will.

However, I think the new sim will likely give developers the chance to vastly improve on their existing MSFS add-ons and so, I expect, we will see new versions of existing software being made available as payware, in the months following launch.

I wouldn't have a problem with that.  Developers don't work for free.  Cheers,

Calum

I am looking forward to the release of MSFS2024. I expect that, like MSFS2020, I'll opt for the Premium Deluxe version if it is available. I am guessing that most of my MSFS files will be compatible with the newer sim, so after transferring them I will eliminate the older sim.
I will continue to use XP12. Two sims are enough.

Im bracing myself and not looking forward to having to buy all the same addons that I had already purchased for 2020, again. (I’m very skeptical that it will be plug & play for the old addons).
 

I know people are going to die on that hill claiming it won’t be the case, but I’ve been through these claims before and that’s never the reality. 

Edited August 27, 20241 yr by UAL4life

52 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

I see that a certain floor accessory is desperately screaming for attention *again*, and trying to get eyes on his lame YT *again* ... for those who don't know, said character has done this here before with attempts at "facts" which are pure bunk and got soundly laughed at.
 

The irony is off the charts here 🤣
 

Didn't you watch his videos? You would totally understand him if you did. 

17 minutes ago, UAL4life said:

m bracing myself and not looking forward to having to buy all the same addons that I had already purchased for 2020, again. (I’m very skeptical that it will be plug & play for the old addons).

Yea, I think some will just work and particularly recently released ones will probably make it over with no additional costs. But, it is clear Asobo is building in the functionality for developers to charge an upgrade fee and I think that will certainly be used. In my way of thinking, I am okay with paying a small upgrade fee if the developer makes effort to bring the product up to date. For example, updating the layout of an airport, incorporating any changes or adjusting the FM on an aircraft to take full advantage of new functionality. Developers need to continue to earn an income and there is a finite number of airports each can realistically do, so just as Asobo needs to release a new paid version from time to time, it is reasonable for developers to do the same -- but they need to do the same and put the work into the product. Where I will struggle to accept a fee is simply to port over a product. 

On 8/23/2024 at 4:24 PM, ryanbatc said:

I'm all in on day one.

Me, too however. I want to make sure all of my payware devs (airports, addons and planes) are all working and there is no upgrade fee.

There will be some bugs but I do look forward to the new tech and upgrades for the new sim.

I will likely just keep MSFS 2020 installed as long I as need to as developers "transition" or allow their stuff to migrate, if they do at all.

Why are people bringing up other simulators and flat earth on here?

Stick to script, people. You're going off topic.

Edited August 28, 20241 yr by Sonosusto

Day 1 purchase for sure. I am really thrilled on the MS/Asobo ambitions and I can live with the expected trouble in the first months.

I expect the overall product / UI to be more polished. For example how aircrafts are presented. The hangar is totally disconnected from the rest. With wear and tear, individual profiles and such, a specific plane becomes more unique and relevant.

I might be disappointed with the career modes. I think this an excellent direction and I have big hope that this will be a significant feature rich experience. if this is done right, it could be really a game changer and get flight simulation out of its niche.

I do not expect much from flight model, weather, ATC and such. If there would be significant improvements, we would already know.

 

2 hours ago, Sonosusto said:

Me, too however. I want to make sure all of my payware devs (airports, addons and planes) are all working and there is no upgrade fee.

I guess it will depend on how much effort the dev has to put in. It may require very little or no work to make a addon work in 2024, but if there is new tech in 2024 that devs can use to make their products work and look better, then they are likely to charge to cover the cost of development.

Day one for me here too.

No point in waiting. I've jumped into almost every flight sim I could get my hands on, since fs2004 days, 

FS2004, FSX, MSFS2020, X-plane 8 thru X-plane 12, P3d since its beginnings, FSX steam edition, Aerofly FS2, Dovetail games flight school, Flight sim world, DCS.....

MSFS 2020, I have had very few complaints since day one. It's been a solid sim for them most part. I can't see myself being disappointed with MSFS 2024, and if it does have issues and limitations ( like every sim I've ever bought) so be it. We will power through it like we always do! Cheers.

43 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

I'm a mechanical engineer and understand how forces (whether aerodynamic or mechanical) act on bodies (whether aeroplanes or other bodies).

What do you think of the two tech demos Asobo has shown of balloon physics in 2024?

 

8 hours ago, Sonosusto said:

Me, too however. I want to make sure all of my payware devs (airports, addons and planes) are all working and there is no upgrade fee.

There will be some bugs but I do look forward to the new tech and upgrades for the new sim.

I will likely just keep MSFS 2020 installed as long I as need to as developers "transition" or allow their stuff to migrate, if they do at all.

 

I wouldn't expect all of them to work - or maybe they well.  I think Asobo said marketplace purchases should work.  But I don't buy much off of there myself.  I'd be happy to pay for updates - especially as those things take time.

2 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

which BTW no one has yet refuted.

The view counts tell me no one has yet cared. 

The fact that most of your videos appear to a casual observer as just random cherry picked footage with little in the way of explicit explanation of what they're even showing or what they're claiming contributes to them being ignored.  

There's plenty of angry preachers making all sorts of claims on soap boxes in plazas around the world every day. They're a lot more visible than your videos. The fact that no one stops to argue against them doesn't mean they are right. 

Edited August 28, 20241 yr by Abriael