Regarding walk arounds, a quick reminder that A2A gave us those over a decade ago with well implemented static views that could be actioned in sequence or skipped via an 'efb' 2d panel. 

Requiring an old school sim pilot to learn fps character moving skills (where's the crouch, sprint and sprint-crouch-slide mechanic? 😉) to carry out a clunky visible external inspection is the problem for many. 

2 hours ago, mpo910 said:

I would have this option too indeed. And I think they will implement it. 

You can do this already, as mentioned in a different post here in the forum (but I did not find it myself, either): Click a spot which is *not* a designated parking spot and choose 'On the ground' from the drop-down (with the alternative being 'In the air'). Not 100% sure about the wording, as I don't have the Sim open right now.

This opens the plane cold and dark but with chocks and other stuff already removed.

1 hour ago, Lord Farringdon said:

I think you might be confusing real world preflight safety and readiness checks (including aircraft walk rounds) with MSFS2024's gaming challenge where the avatar has to complete certain tasks before they get to go flying.  By all accounts (I'm not a 2024 user), the challenge is to simply reach the cockpit level by completing the click points, the only consequence of which is that you don't get to go flying unless this challenge is completed correctly. In many ways this is a lead in challenge not unlike a patsy question in a quiz show that any dummy can answer and earn $100 before the game levels get tougher. 

Challenges have purposes including being a motivating factor and if the gauntlet is thrown at you, there is a natural instinct to take it up. The drive to prove yourself motivates people to join in. Participation in activities out of the norm for us is a way to show ourselves as brave, honorable, strong or just plain interesting. They may also have educational purposes. None of which has any bearing on the average flight simmer who simply wants to go flying. 

So yes. It is extremely 'gamey' because: 

1. There is no way to bypass this challenge level.

2. You will never find anything wrong with the aircraft that could really affect safety of flight and so there is no purpose to the walkaround beyond creating an introductory challenge.

Meanwhile your concerns over proper walk rounds is overshadowed by the elephant in the room, ie lack of acceptable ATC. If you really want to talk safety of flight, security and operational implications, then ATC is where the effort should have been placed. But no. MSFS chose the low hanging 'gamey' fruit instead. Of course, there are much larger strategic reasons for this but they are of no relevance to this thread.

 

 Cheers

 

Terry
 

This is utter nonsense.  Maybe you should get MSFS 2024 first because you obviously know nothing about how the walk-arounds are tied to the checklist. One of the points of the walk-around is to teach people who have never flown in real life, the proper procedures before you start a plane. And MSFS 2024 also include checklists as part of that procedures. As part of the walk-around, you can ensure you have completed the various items on the checklist - the check-list was integrated with the walk-around when I last tried it.

Even Fenix may integrate their product line with the new walk-around feature in MSFS 2024:

Quote

Once we’ve all had more time with the new platform and a few of the bigger issues are resolved, we’ll be back to really sink our teeth into new items like the modular SimObject system, and an “enhanced” walk-around mode.

Maybe you should tell Fenix not to implement it, because it's a "challenge" only and it's "gamey" 🤣.

Pretty soon, people like you, @mpo910, and @desbean are going to tell us that walk-arounds and checklists are "gamey" and "challenges" only, and we shouldn't do them in real life 🤣

 

 

Edited December 4, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

Deleted

Edited December 4, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

39 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

This is utter nonsense.  Maybe you should get MSFS 2024 first because you obviously know nothing about how the walk-arounds are tied to the checklist. One of the points of the walk-around is to teach people who have never flown in real life, the proper procedures before you start a plane. And MSFS 2024 also include checklists as part of that procedures. As part of the walk-around, you can ensure you have completed the various items on the checklist - the check-list was integrated with the walk-around when I last tried it.

Without prejudice, and all due respect to everyone here, I think people arguing about this is pointless. 

This feature should be optional in the game plain and simple. Just another oversight on MS/Asobo's part. Or they may even had plans to implement it as optional, but was simply pushed to the wayside in favor of not missing the deadline, just like they did for so many other glaring issues with the sim. I won't go over those, they've been published in various forums and social media platforms ad nauseam. We all know what these are, and MS knew all along what it is they were releasing.

The bottom line here is, many of us paid a lot of money for this sim. I myself prepaid for the Aviator's Edition. And MS true to their reputation, basically urinated all over us again. When you enter a transaction with a company as large as MS, you expect them to deliver a finished product, just as they expect you to pay them good money right away. If you're going to make me a paying beta tester without my knowledge- sorry not interested at those prices. I may pay eg $30 for a beta, incomplete or broken product with intent to purchase the final release version, when it IS indeed a release version, if I am satisfied that it ticks all the boxes that I expect in the a flight simulator.

For all you folks out there who are enjoying the sim, and are willing to compromise, and perhaps overlook most of the issues, you should speak up, Don't come to the forums and make excuses for them, Don't give them a pass, because companies like MS will continue with this behavior. After all they took your hard-earned money. On the flipside, if you are truly happy with the sim, all the power to you, by all means enjoy, but please refrain from berating folks in the forums for expressing their grievances with the sim. They have a right to voice their frustrations.

No, I did not go for the refund, but that is my prerogative, and frankly I willing to wait- even out of curiosity to see how this sim plays out. But I will not make excuses for them, and be very vocal about my grievances. They do read these forums. And this this is the last time I ever plunk down good money to MS either by prepay, or even on launch day. You'd think after 20 years, I would have learned my lesson. Thankfully, I don't delete any of my older sims- call me a digital sim hoarder. And I can still enjoy my hobby until this... whatever you'd like to call it reaches a better finished state.

Cheers.

13 minutes ago, vyper883 said:

Without prejudice, and all due respect to everyone here, I think people arguing about this is pointless. 

This feature should be optional in the game plain and simple.

 

I also agree that it should be optional. At the ramp, there should be an option to start cold and dark and bypass the walk-around, just like MSFS 2020.

I want to emphasize though, that when people get so angry and they call the walk-around "gamey," that's just nonsense.  The best way to provide constructive feedback to the MSFS team is to tell them we want an option to start cold & dark at the ramp, and bypass the walk-around.

The wrong way to provide feedback to the MSFS team is to call the walk-around "gamey."  Because the walk-around was extremely educational as it was tied to the checklist, when I last tried it.

Edited December 4, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

2 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

The wrong way to provide feedback to the MSFS team is to call the walk-around "gamey."

And that is a valid opinion, I don't think the term "gamey" should be taken as an insult. Absolutely no need to take it personally? But I digress. Cheers.

22 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

After waiting three years to switch from P3Dv4 to MSFS 2020, it can be seen that I have some pedigree with respect to the "wait and see" philosophy

True. MSFS2020 has never been more stable than any other flightsim in history. I switched in October 2022, roughly 26 months after its release and have never been more happier.  

3 hours ago, Lord Farringdon said:

2. You will never find anything wrong with the aircraft that could really affect safety of flight and so there is no purpose to the walkaround beyond creating an introductory challenge.

That's wrong. Not removing engine covers e.g. will cause the aircraft to not move. So doing these things has a purpose and failing to do them properly will prevent you from flying.

My forecast is, that it won't take long until addon devs will implement visible damages, that you should not overlook during the walkaround if you don't want to get into troubles later while flying.

a walk-around for checking brake wear pins for minimums after some time of operation, general tire conditions, oil+fuel leaks, bird-strikes at blades, slats, radome, missing panels and so on. If this is implemented a walk-around makes sense, otherwise you can visit plane spotter websites to check the beauty of aircrafts. Best regards

5 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Are we talking about the same thing? I am referring to walk-around before starting up the plane: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walk-around

The quotes from @desbean was:

Walk-arounds are necessary in real life to ensure the safety of the plane. It is not "gamey." Walk-arounds are realistic, and something I would expect to do before I start a plane. If you don't know what I am talking about when I am using the word "walk-around," refer to that Wikipedia article.

In that Wikipedia article, it says:

Security, safety, and operational reasons.

If you and @desbean think walk-arounds are "gamey," well, let's just say I disagree with the both of you and we will never agree on this. MSFS 2024 walk-arounds make it more realistic, the fact that you have to check the oil, check the flaps, rudder and ailerons, etc, before you start the plane.

Also, if you or @desbean ever ran a flight school where walk-arounds were not required before starting the plane and flying, I would definitely not attend your flight school!

I personally have never seen a 747 pilot walking around and taking covers off of engines and tubes, but if you think that’s realistic and not gamey, we can disagree.

3 minutes ago, desbean said:

I personally have never seen a 747 pilot walking around and taking covers off of engines and tubes, but if you think that’s realistic and not gamey, we can disagree.

So MSFS 2024 is only for 747 pilots? Are you discounting the entire GA fleet of aircraft?

16 minutes ago, desbean said:

I personally have never seen a 747 pilot walking around and taking covers off of engines and tubes, but if you think that’s realistic and not gamey, we can disagree.

Can you imagine a 777 pilot trying to get the cover off the engine 😂   

To be fair most of the commercial airliner add-ons will probably have 2024 "compatibility" first which should mean no need for walkaround etc.  Fenix doesn't require a walk around because it's not developed for the 2024 features yet it's 2024 compatible and personally I hope it stays that way until the developers can do exactly what you said and ensure if there is a walk around it's specific to that plane.  

No commercial pilot is removing engine covers before flight LOL.  Nor are they removing the chocks 😉

To your point though they are looking for "other things"  so if they implement it let's hope it's done with realism in mind.  

Edited December 4, 20241 yr by psolk

45 minutes ago, cseu said:

a walk-around for checking brake wear pins for minimums after some time of operation, general tire conditions, oil+fuel leaks, bird-strikes at blades, slats, radome, missing panels and so on. If this is implemented a walk-around makes sense, otherwise you can visit plane spotter websites to check the beauty of aircrafts. Best regards

Hi,

Must be an option!

Greetings

 

5 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Walk-arounds are necessary in real life to ensure the safety of the plane.

Correct.
But this is not real life, it is a simple PC video game.
In real life there is no 2x, 4x, 8x time simulation, and yet there are pilots who buy a 777 and do 12-hour flights with the simulator at 8x time.
And then there are pilots like me who fly after dinner smoking cigarettes and drinking beer. 🍺