Just wondering why these days buying broken or unfinished software is something ‚normal’ and OK, whilst such standards do not exist in other industrial norms ?

Will you stay ‚productive’ when your brand new car will be delivered with broken audio system ?
You can still drive, so glass is half full …

45 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

Although MSFS 2024 has a metric word not allowed ton of bugs, and most of the GA planes are buggy, I'm still enjoying it immensely.

Same, have been from day one. Actually, that's not true, day two😅

I do hope that among all the gripes, doom-mongering, calls for heads to roll and for licenses to be withdrawn, calls for public shame and pleasure in perceived despondency, accusations of apologism, boot-licking, kool-aid drinking, even hatred for 'them all' (yes, someone actually said that!), I assume you guys are actually pitching in and reporting some bugs, right...?

9 hours ago, CAP1234 said:

To be honest they need to hire more competent programmers and software developers - There is no point of having IRL pilots on the beta team when developers can't fix the problem in the first place. Asobo has been known to ignore people's feedback and rather do things their way

They need both. They released a 737 Max 8 with the engines of the 737NG and a trim that is super-hyper-overly sensitive. 

A programmer works with numbers, a real pilot can tell him/her if these numbers are right or wrong for that specific aircraft.

Well, in my case and even with the problems mentioned in the OP, FS 2024 is already a SUCCESS, in most aspects, namely:

.) It's the most accurate default scenery of the whole World, to a level of detail that is trully jaw dropping;

.) Weather depiction got better, even if it is not yet to the level they will probably even bring it to with future, always free, updates. Weather effects are poor, but I have Active Sky and Real Turb to help with that;

.) Functionality is superb! not only the instruments that were created by the talented WT team, but all of the various components of the sim, that make the type of flights I do the most these days really rewarding ( I 90% fly from A to B in the Fenix A320 using BATC for ATC, and planning to use it too with it's traffic injection as soon as ASOBO sorts out the problems with using the default FS 2024 liveries - I will skip the burden of FSLTL or AIG, because I don't care flying with fictious comapnies provided their paths and behaviours are coherent and coherently controlled by ATC ).

.) The rotaries appear to handle a bit better than in FS 2020, but that's about all I use as default aircraft, although there are still a few to test because even in my Standard version I got a bunch of new aircracft for free;

.) PERFORMANCE is UNIQUE! given the level of detail of all graphics. I've made my ROLLINGCACHE 256 GB and I notice that most of the areas I fly over are no longer being streamed. It's probably not smoother, but I tend to be bandwidth savy because when I started, many many moons ago, I used to get huge X.25 bills where I worked at, and that is hardcoded in my neural net, together with the "vi" editor full list of commands 🤪;

I haven't had any quirks with the sim after those few days of release, quite on the contrary. Overall it performs better than FS 2020 did, and looks much better!

I OFC, prefer not to comment right now on aspects like the flight dynamics / feel of flight because I know it's WIP, and I never liked it in FS 2020 and it looks like as it is right now, although a bit better in terms of ground handling and some minor details while flying, at least the default aircraft I have tried don't match my expectations, but I will wait for updates and fine tunning of their updated flight model. So far this and weather effects like thermals are the same deception they always were in FS 2020... and meanwhile an addon like the Fenix makes me forget about it 🙂

 

Edited December 10, 20241 yr by jcomm

25 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

I assume you guys are actually pitching in and reporting some bugs, right...?

Speaking for myself, No. I didn't buy a game to become a beta tester for a product that should've released in a far better state. This is on Jorg & his team to diagnose and fix blatantly obvious issues, not me.

Edited December 10, 20241 yr by MarcG

24 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

I assume you guys are actually pitching in and reporting some bugs, right...?

I thought they had already got their refunds and uninstalled. That is what they are saying anyway. 

 

1 hour ago, scotchegg said:

 I assume you guys are actually pitching in and reporting some bugs, right...?

This!!

It's quite evident that all this stuff needs to go into Microsoft/Asobo bug reporting system via the official website.

Will it be acted on immediately? Highly doubtful due to the sheer volume being reported but at least it will be registered on their system and go into the process. 

Games would be released in better condition if people wait for the reviews first before buying especially giving preorder a WIDE berth. 

This is especially true when one franchise holds a monopoly on a product. 

2 hours ago, St Mawgan said:

I thought they had already got their refunds and uninstalled. That is what they are saying anyway. 

 

Yeah, I don't get this either. They got their money back. Case closed. 

2024's launch was an unfortunate shambles, there's no denying that.

But honestly for me, the biggest annoyance about the new sim is the controls set up. It's an unintuitive, confusing mess and I don't know why they felt the need to change it from 2020, which for the most part just worked with minimal fuss.

Once you put that and the first couple of days post-launch to one side, I think the sim is amazing and I haven't touched 2020 since release. The new visuals, particularly the clouds, shadows and atmospherics are stunning. It generally runs a bit smoother than 2020 too. If you're only interested in Free Flight I don't think there are any real setbacks from the 2020 experience but you will benefit from the points made above. In comparison though the scope of things to do with the sim compared to 2020 are HUGE. The photographer mode, the weekly challenges, even career mode are actually super fun to mess about with. Are they 100% realistic? No. But also do you have to use them? Also no.

I think generally people were so put off and disgusted by the appalling release experience that they're no longer giving the sim a chance at this point. If you go into it with an open mind, accept that it's a brand new sim and is continually evolving, then I think most people will soon discover that it is actually a better sim than 2020.

29 minutes ago, Tom Wright said:

2024's launch was an unfortunate shambles, there's no denying that.

But honestly for me, the biggest annoyance about the new sim is the controls set up. It's an unintuitive, confusing mess and I don't know why they felt the need to change it from 2020, which for the most part just worked with minimal fuss.

 

The idea was that of allowing for the creation of custom profiles for specific aircraft or classes of aircraft.

It neds good documentation and tutorials, but other than that I am enjoying it after the initial adaptaion period.

The only aspect that they skipped and should also be possible to customize are the axis tuning features, which are, once defined/updated, inherited by all profiles 😕

I would rather be able to, just as in X-Plane 12 or IL-2 or DCS World, be able to define separate curves for my controller axis, as well as dead zones, etc..., custom to each aircraft or class of aircraft.

SPOLIER: (my thesis: ASOBO is French... French can make a mess of any artifact, engineering project, car... airplane... 😜)

Edited December 10, 20241 yr by jcomm

Crazy how the tide has turned in regards to MSFS 2024. In the days after the (bad) release people were mostly raving here about how good MSFS 2024 was and that once the server issues were gone they'd all be using MSFS2024 only. Now I don't read any of this anymore, at least here on Avsim (I doubt it's better on the MS forums...). Might 2024 actually fail in the end?

Edited December 10, 20241 yr by Fiorentoni

5 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

Crazy how the tide has turned in regards to MSFS 2024. In the days after the (bad) release people were mostly raving here about how good MSFS 2024 was and that once the server issues were gone they'd all be using MSFS2024 only. Now I don't read any of this anymore, at least here on Avsim (I doubt it's better on the MS forums...). Might 2024 actually fail in the end?

From what I saw it was overwhelmingly bad, angry even at the start. People would have stormed Asobo's offices if they could. Now that some of the dust has settled, and it is still extremely early days, there is a huge amount of positivity towards it now. Haters tend to have the loudest voices in this and everything else but don't fall for it. I take it you haven't tried it yet? 

12 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

Crazy how the tide has turned in regards to MSFS 2024. In the days after the (bad) release people were mostly raving here about how good MSFS 2024 was and that once the server issues were gone they'd all be using MSFS2024 only. Now I don't read any of this anymore, at least here on Avsim (I doubt it's better on the MS forums...). Might 2024 actually fail in the end?

Are you being serious? The first few days were full of incredible anger for the most part, at the GUI, the bindings, the connectivity and the CTDs. A lot of that has gone now and I'm seeing more and more saying they're enjoying it. Of course lots pointing out the bugs, and still a few clearly furious and predicting the end of the franchise (as you have done), but no. I don't think it will fail. Especially not after just 3 weeks...

4 minutes ago, St Mawgan said:

From what I saw it was overwhelmingly bad, angry even at the start. People would have stormed Asobo's offices if they could. Now that some of the dust has settled, and it is still extremely early days, there is a huge amount of positivity towards it now. Haters tend to have the loudest voices in this and everything else but don't fall for it. I take it you haven't tried it yet? 

I did. And I share the same feelings as anybody else in this thread: Some very good improvements, overshadowed inexplicably by the same mistakes from 2020 all over again. Bug riddled in almost every way.
While with the release of 2020 people were at least having a revolutionary new simulator that was leaps and bounds above anything else in regards to visuals and performance, now I feel like most are just "Nah not going to let that drain my joy, I'm going back to 2020". While the mistakes/Bugs/quality assurance etc. is the same as in 2020 (which is bad in enough in itself), the situation is now vastly different: People don't need MSFS 2024 in order to have a stunningly looking flight simulator, especially not in this state. That's why I think it's a legit question if 2024 could end up as a failure (even though I doubt it - most devs have already committed to 2024, especially iniBuilds, so that train is going into that direction no matter what)