4 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

It’s not exactly the same thing as reducing RPM at idle on a prop, because a propeller’s pitch is variable, while a fan’s blades are fixed in pitch. When the rearward flow of air through the fan is blocked and redirected sideways (and somewhat forward) the fan actively resists the inward flow of air into the inlet, and that resistance is greater the faster the fan is turning - (and the faster the aircraft is moving). It is a different kind of drag than that produced by a windmilling prop.

There is a law of diminishing returns however. At high power reverse, the thrust contribution from the exhaust gases increases, while the fan’s resistance to inlet airflow decreases as the aircraft slows down. 

Many large airports have restrictions on the use of any more than idle reverse unless absolutely necessary, due to noise and environmental impacts, but even idle  reverse is effective because it effectively “switches off” the flow of fan air rearwards through the bypass duct. 

The redirected fan air does have some “reverse” thrust effect but not as much as the old exhaust gas reversers where almost all of the engine thrust was redirected forward.

The explanation of how a cascade bypass reverser “does what it does” is specific to GE engines, and comes from GE engine maintenance classes (for CF6 and CF34) that I have taken at the GE facility in Cincinnati. I’m not personally an expert on the subject by any means.

There are other engine models that have a different method for redirecting fan air, using doors that open on the side of the nacelle that redirect a lot more of the fan air forwards. I think the Airbus A340 is one aircraft that uses this system, but even here, the reversed fan air will start to be neutralized by exhaust gas thrust at higher reverse power settings as the aircraft slows down.

Thanks JR Barrett!!! I learned a ton today on thrust reversers. What a crazy rabbit hole!!!!

1 hour ago, evaamo said:

I’m going to pass for a few reasons: the 300ER in MSFS2020 is very nice from a modeling point of view, but it hand-flies worse than their P3D version… and that’s saying something. There are many of us who complained about this for years regarding the “feel” of flight in their FBW implementation. I’m not getting burned $77.72 again for a remodeled 200ER (still waiting for that improved VC) with the same system logic than their P3D version. 
 

As problematic as their A350 was, the inibuilds in the latest version is really good and has nice immersion features, not to mention proper gsx integration, which PMDG continues to deny (yet you are unable to pushback in their own tablet?! Still!?!).

Sorry, but if I want a 200ER I’ll scratch my itch in FlightFactor’s 777v2 in XP12  which hand-flies great, has great system depth, sounds great and provides more immersion out of the box (I know their still at “beta” regarding VNAV).

PMDG has to improve their game if they want to keep charging those prices. Learnt my lesson with the 300ER which I shouldn’t have bought due to their 200ER money-grab from P3D.

Not that I want to convince you one way or the other, but they did remodel handling for the plane, and many consider it to be an improvement. Out of curiosity, what systems logic in their 777 do you feel is lacking? If anything, you should probably just wait for them to update the 300er in a month or so, then you can see if the improvements are more to your liking.

15 minutes ago, alanw2005 said:

Here is a jet reversing with reverse thrust (with slit reversers as opposed to bucket type):

 

The C17 has a very complex T/R that is very different than that found on any airliner. It has cascade reverse blocker doors for the fan air, and also internal buckets

16 minutes ago, Kevin_28 said:

Not that I want to convince you one way or the other, but they did remodel handling for the plane, and many consider it to be an improvement. Out of curiosity, what systems logic in their 777 do you feel is lacking? If anything, you should probably just wait for them to update the 300er in a month or so, then you can see if the improvements are more to your liking.

Hi, I don't think the system's logic is "lacking", I just said it's the same system's logic than in their P3D version. When you mention PMDG did a "remodel"  of the handling, do you mean this is for 200ER compared to the 300ER? If so: Is this for MSFS2024 only? and if so... do you know if will it be "backported" to the 300ER?.

Thanks for the information!

 

Just now, evaamo said:

Hi, I don't think the system's logic is "lacking", I just said it's the same system's logic than in their P3D version. When you mention PMDG did a "remodel"  of the handling, do you mean this is for 200ER compared to the 300ER? If so: Is this for MSFS2024 only? and if so... do you know if will it be "backported" to the 300ER?.

Thanks for the information!

Ah! It's been a while since I've flown the p3d version, but there have been changes.

Yea there have been changes made for the 200er, but they will be moving those improvements to the 300er that will release in a month or so (free of charge). I believe it will be available for both 2024 and 2020.

1 hour ago, B777ER said:

Not to get too far off topic but,  I am assuming you toggled on the GSX integration on the EFB for this? How do you feel it is working when compared to the Fenix GSX integration? I haven’t tried it yet.

Yes, I enabled it on the EFB. I think it is almost at the same level than the Fenix... and by almost I mean there only are a few minor "manual" things to adjust in the A350 compared to the Fenix. IMO, the prize of best out-of-the-box integration with GSX in MSFS still belongs to the FSLabs A321CEO.

20 minutes ago, Kevin_28 said:

Not that I want to convince you one way or the other, but they did remodel handling for the plane, and many consider it to be an improvement. Out of curiosity, what systems logic in their 777 do you feel is lacking? If anything, you should probably just wait for them to update the 300er in a month or so, then you can see if the improvements are more to your liking.

A month or so to update the 300?  It must be a month or so of sweat, blood and tears to achieve such an impossible task? No,no. It's just a month of so to bleed white those who can't wait.

1 hour ago, alanw2005 said:

I have flown real airline sumulators and the 777-200ER by PMDG reacts like the real full motion simulator would based on your control inputs. It is really, really good. 

In 20 or 24?

55 minutes ago, alanw2005 said:

Here is a jet reversing with reverse thrust (with slit reversers as opposed to bucket type):

 

That one does it airborne, too 😮

17 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

A month or so to update the 300?  It must be a month or so of sweat, blood and tears to achieve such an impossible task? No,no. It's just a month of so to bleed white those who can't wait.

Pretty sure they've been working on it for a while already. It also needs to go to the beta test team if it hasn't already.

Just completed a quick flight from LEBL to EGLL in 2020, the only thing I noted was that it didn't appear to be as smooth (FPS) as the 300 but I have updated the drivers recently. Other than that I had no issues. Going to try it in 2024 next time after SU2 is released to compare. Hopefully, if there are no issues, then I'll start the transition fully to 2024.

54 minutes ago, evaamo said:

Hi, I don't think the system's logic is "lacking", I just said it's the same system's logic than in their P3D version. When you mention PMDG did a "remodel"  of the handling, do you mean this is for 200ER compared to the 300ER? If so: Is this for MSFS2024 only? and if so... do you know if will it be "backported" to the 300ER?.

Thanks for the information!

 

So this FBY and speed trim is identical in any 777. The real negligible difference is on the 300S, where you get on the ND the camera, length, and minor speed differences. They handle pretty much the same. PMDG did a nice job with the trim speed feature, but the implementation is incorrect; there are up and down visible oscillations, sometimes unstable characteristics that in the real airplane are not present. Actually, this airplane is very stable. In this airplane, trimming up/down should be like any other airplane and not result in any bobbing up/down afterwards. Yes, the system, behind the scenes, will do that to establish that regime, but you don't see it or feel it. P3D, MSFS2020 got the same issue carried over. It's somebody's wrong interpretation. It is more pronounced if you hand fly with multiple configuration changes. If I'm not mistaken, some old CBTs on YouTube explain how this works. 

31 minutes ago, LRBS said:

So this FBY and speed trim is identical in any 777. The real negligible difference is on the 300S, where you get on the ND the camera, length, and minor speed differences. They handle pretty much the same. PMDG did a nice job with the trim speed feature, but the implementation is incorrect; there are up and down visible oscillations, sometimes unstable characteristics that in the real airplane are not present. Actually, this airplane is very stable. In this airplane, trimming up/down should be like any other airplane and not result in any bobbing up/down afterwards. Yes, the system, behind the scenes, will do that to establish that regime, but you don't see it or feel it. P3D, MSFS2020 got the same issue carried over. It's somebody's wrong interpretation. It is more pronounced if you hand fly with multiple configuration changes. If I'm not mistaken, some old CBTs on YouTube explain how this works. 

People are saying that the plane feels much better in 2024. I would assume that the FBW and trim issues have also been rectified. Is that not the case?

Edited May 2, 20251 yr by RNAVV19R

Personally, I preferred the feel of the 777F in P3Dv4 than I do in MSFS. Maybe that is because I stopped short of updating the P3D version of the 777F/LR before PMDG introduced the ground handling modifications. The old version felt nice and heavy on the ground. I was also able to land the P3D version a lot better than I can the MSFS version. The latter "floats" quite a lot, and I sometimes have difficulty activating the thrust reversers. Then of course there is the ground handling. It is OK in the MSFS version, but that "shopping trolley" nose wheel when rolling out (or taking off) feels rather unrealistic. That is one feature that I am hoping has been improved in MSFS 2024.

Edited May 2, 20251 yr by Christopher Low

are livery profiles not working for anyone else? I've loaded two European liveries, British Airways and Austrian, both times they defaulted to pounds and inches