Where I am having a brain aneurysm with PMDG is the simple fact that in Rob's own words. The advent of MSFS as a platform would bring millions of existing MSFS users into the hobby, decreasing the cost of acquisition for us, the end users, while maintaining the same development time. He repeated this several times in his PR tour.
 

When 2024 was announced, as others remember and I, it would be (free or a small cup of coffee) then when they wanted to make more profit, they added a cabin, finally got us sounds comparable to what Boris already had available for truly the price of a cup of coffee, and he claimed it was a rework of the entire plane. It feels very familiar to me what we had in the NGXu days. 

Let’s talk about the NGXu. If you aggregate the price of all variants for P3Ds NGXu, the total cost of the 737 line up was 180.00 US. Today for just the 2020 version with out the discount it ended up being 224.99 US. If you had the credit for the NGXu you ended up paying around 150.00 US for the entire fleet. Now we’re in 2024, and we’ve paid another $30. So, where’s the (lower price of acquisition because more players are in the hobby)? Remember back then the excuse of the price hike was “its not a game license, and LM tos doesn't allow us to sell gaming products.” Remember when every dev and forum mod in the P3D forums was like “we don't care” and every other developer who made products for P3D was just fine selling them? 
 

Believe me, if it wasn’t a single developer making the 737NG I would have already bought the competitor. Much like I didn’t buy the FSLabs A321 versus the FENIX A321. Or when iFly had the 737NG for FSX I opted for that one because it was a better value at the time. 
 

They are in a position of power with the niche in the market, and they know it. And anyone here who says “just don’t buy it “ must not have learned enough about monopoly or lack of competition. We are at the mercy of what the one provider can offer and we either swallow the big pill , or don’t play. 
 

They make a great product, but there’s 1000% a better way to handle their PR, while not alienating their customer base. This hobby is the only one where I’ve seen that the developers and business can tell the customer “you’re wrong” and we are expected to just sit back and take it. Time and time again I see it with developers who immediately go and blame the user, or just say “you don’t have to buy our product if you don’t like it.” It really is an interesting customer retention model that only survives in a vacuum of competitors. 

 

Edited December 19, 2025Dec 19 by spearmint_flyer

11 minutes ago, spearmint_flyer said:

They make a great product, but there’s 1000% a better way to handle their PR, while not alienating their customer base.

Completely agree with your sentiments, but surely it is now time to enjoy the released product(s). Unfortunately it is obvious that no amount of complaining or pointing out the situation is going to change PMDG stance at this time.

The cat is biting it's own tail.

PMDG has a monopoly for sure but if they have a monopoly it is also because it's quite worthless for any other company to come into PMDG's garden. 

For exemple, Ifly could have developed a 737NG like they did for P3D in the past, but it was smarter for them to come with a MAX where there were no competition. Not only did they got 100% of the MAX market but they also get a small part of the NG users fed up with PMDG.

PMDG is so established with the 737, 777 and 747 families that I'm not sure someone would want to waste money & ressources to compete with them.

4 minutes ago, sdirand said:

The cat is biting it's own tail.

PMDG has a monopoly for sure but if they have a monopoly it is also because it's quite worthless for any other company to come into PMDG's garden. 

For exemple, Ifly could have developed a 737NG like they did for P3D in the past, but it was smarter for them to come with a MAX where there were no competition. Not only did they got 100% of the MAX market but they also get a small part of the NG users fed up with PMDG.

PMDG is so established with the 737, 777 and 747 families that I'm not sure someone would want to waste money & ressources to compete with them.

I'm not sure. The most important people at PMDG are slowly but steadily nearing retirement. I would venture the guess that the current development cycle is the last one we will see of them. And once 747 and 787 are out, it is not unlikely that this is it for PMDG and we won't see any of their aircraft in the next version of the sim.

9 minutes ago, sdirand said:

but it was smarter for them to come with a MAX where there were no competition.

You forgot iFly friend and their Max 8.  Another established Boeing Developer.  Blue skies,

-B

Edited December 19, 2025Dec 19 by btacon

I've had the -800 in my cart all night.  I really wanted the -700 cause I mostly fly BBJ ops and imo, the -700 is vastly nicer looking hehe.  I realize the 800 has a BBJ2 variant.  But it's more of an airliner, not nearly as beautiful as the 700 🙂

I guess I have to be patient.

I really think the 30 is TOTALLY fair.  It is re-done and quite a stark contrast from the old 2020 version (this is what I've heard from a few guys closer to me).  I guess I'm just actually frustrated at users who refuse to pay for upgrades.  It's a lot of work!  To put things in perspective, converting a free livery I did for 2020, to 2024, could easily mean 2-3 hours of work.

Or is it something deeper?  PMDG have a Falcon 50 - are people against others gaining wealth?  I don't know Rob's story.  But most people who have a lot of wealth didn't have it at the beginning - they worked and worked and worked for it.

Is the hatred simply from the cup of coffee statement?  Maybe PMDG shouldn't have said that - or maybe that was their plan but they changed at last minute.  Still though, 30 is just not much.  I can barely get out of McDonalds for my family of 6 for less than 30 (and that's with rewards on the app lol).

Reading all of this I think PMDG has had a pretty difficult transition to MSFS. They had to learn a lot technically, the NG in 2020 was a pretty lackluster product compared to what other developers were releasing. We also have had a substantial influx new simmers, and PMDG needed to learn how to communicate and work with a larger, more diverse and younger audience, and I think they have struggled here as well. They seem to have had a pretty regular influx of criticism and that can get hard to deal with, especially when that criticism is not expressed well or politely. Nevertheless they seem to lack the knowledge of how to engage well with the audience. Compare their communications with that of Fenix, Black Square or A2A.

The new "couple of cups of coffee" meme is an example of this.  I don't think there was an intent to deceive or mislead, maybe at the time that is what they were thinking, maybe Robert was trying to indicate it would not be a full cost or near full cost purchase and used a poor analogy. But they should have just addressed it directly and transparently weeks ago when it was becoming an issue. Simply acknowledging that it was a poor choice of analogy, describing the work they have done this past year, apologizing if the analogy caused confusion and outlining their upgrade price would have just quashed the flare up. But the lack of acknowledgement and then this allegedly banning people and calling them unsavory names just makes it worse.

I did not get the 800 for 2024 and at this time I don't plan to do so but I can see from the images and videos that they did a lot of work to try to bring the product up to 2020/2024 standards and if you get it you are getting a substantial upgrade.  It certainly seems with 30 dollars for the next 2, 3, 4 years of enjoyment.

I guess what I am thinking is we would all be better served if both PMDG and its customers would try to understand each other and avoid a common tendency to avoid an us-against-them attitude.

Edited December 19, 2025Dec 19 by Cognita

3 hours ago, KL Oo said:

Judging by rsrandazzos language and approach towards one of his customers here, I'd suggest the children are at PMDG. If this is accurate and not AI generated (and I've no reason to think it is) then I'm done with PMDG. 

Wow that's a terrible and unprofessional way to treat your customers ! I have been very much looking forward to the 800 and was going to upgrade this afternoon but you know what ?

The last 3 flights I have been on have been Max 8 so I am going to have a change .... It's not about the money I'm not going to support a dev with that attitude.

33 minutes ago, Cognita said:

The new "couple of cups of coffee" meme is an example of this.  I don't think there was an intent to deceive or mislead, maybe at the time that is what they were thinking, maybe Robert was trying to indicate it would not be a full cost or near full cost purchase and used a poor analogy. But they should have just addressed it directly and transparently weeks ago when it was becoming an issue. Simply acknowledging that it was a poor choice of analogy, describing the work they have done this past year, apologizing if the analogy caused confusion and outlining their upgrade price would have just quashed the flare up.

Agreed... what likely happened is that RSR thought the work to get the 737 working in 2024 would be more along the compatibility effort, perhaps with a little bit of extra additional work taking advantage of some new features. Then they got into the work and wanted to do more, and for the amount of work they've done they feel the right upgrade price is $30. The issue is that other devs have done similar work for free or much less. In any case for me personally $30 is not a bad price at all in the grand scheme of things, regardless of whatever RSR might have said in the past. He says a lot of things, I never hang on any words he says or promises, or any dev for that matter (especially when earlier in the dev cycle). Always best to just evaluate a product for what it is when released, and make your personal decision on the value proposition.

I'm also not breaking my head getting caught up in all the comical PMDG drama some seem fond of. Perhaps PMDG could have done a compatibility version for zero or minimal price, and then also this version for $30 and that might've gone over much better with those who're angry at the price or "deception" or whatever. At the end of the day the market will speak, and despite all the moaning and groaning PMDG are likely raking in the sales. Until serious competition comes along in the Boeing add-on space, such will be the case.
 

Edited December 19, 2025Dec 19 by lwt1971

35 minutes ago, btacon said:

You forgot iFly friend and their Max 8.  Another established Boeing Developer.  Blue skies,

-B

Yeah, that's what he said. Ifly created the Max 8 instead of taking on PMDG direct. And that was smart. Now they need to create the rest of the lineup and I bet a bunch of people will move over/new users will buy that instead of PMDG. 

Besides, as others have noted, PMDG simply doesnt' seem able to keep up with newer devs. They are very slow, they are very expensive, they don't have any new QoL features. Their tablet fiasco is an example. It's not unusual for a small dev house to slowly effectively retire as the whole company ages out. 

PMDG can remain at their extremely high price point as the "ultimate study level" or whatever, but if Ifly creates a version that has say 80% of the plane (maybe remove some obscure stuff that only real pilots use - they can buy PMDG) for say 50% of the price.. that will be enough for most simmers. 

27 minutes ago, ryanbatc said:

Is the hatred simply from the cup of coffee statement?

No, it was just a useful club to beat them with by people who sound like their lives have been ruined.

10 minutes ago, JonathanC said:

but if Ifly creates a version that has say 80% of the plane (maybe remove some obscure stuff that only real pilots use - they can buy PMDG) for say 50% of the price.. that will be enough for most simmers. 

They aren't though. The iFLY Max is like $5 cheaper than the -800 from PMDG. And that one has 3 variants (PAX, BBJ, Cargo). Even the "budget" mainstream PMDG -900 is $50, and that has two variants.

1 minute ago, BrammyH said:

They aren't though. The iFLY Max is like $5 cheaper than the -800 from PMDG. And that one has 3 variants (PAX, BBJ, Cargo). Even the "budget" mainstream PMDG -900 is $50, and that has two variants.

Agreed. The Max isn't, but that one also has no competition. I'm saying a dev should make an 800/700 for $35-50, which has good but maybe not "PMDG study level" quality.

1 minute ago, JonathanC said:

I'm saying a dev should make an 800/700 for $35-50, which has good but maybe not "PMDG study level" quality.

Fair point. The second pot of coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

1 hour ago, ryanbatc said:

I guess I'm just actually frustrated at users who refuse to pay for upgrades. 

No one refuses. But they refuse to pay 15 bucks per cup of coffee.

22 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

what likely happened is that RSR thought the work to get the 737 working in 2024 would be more along the compatibility effort, perhaps with a little bit of extra additional work taking advantage of some new features. Then they got into the work and wanted to do more, and for the amount of work they've done they feel the right upgrade price is $30.

That's not what happened. The coffee statement was made in July, when work was well underway and the important decisions on what to do were likely already made. After all back then the expectation was that it would take only one or two more months until release.

Also a discipline at which PMDG excell at: Always underestimating the time it will take them to finish a product.

Edited December 19, 2025Dec 19 by Farlis