1 hour ago, JoeFackel said:

Dude ... how many companys do you know offering refunds for entertainment software?

Not many. But this is an issue of people thinking they can refund because they don't like the software.

However if one cannot get the software to run properly that should warrant an indefinate amount of refunds until it works as advertised.

Wow, I was expecting the "crash" when watching that video, but I still jumped when it happened! There is no way that I will be thinking about purchasing P3Dv5 until bugs like that have been fixed.

Edited April 23, 20206 yr by Christopher Low

17 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

Honestly... V5 is a clear improvement over 4.5 and if I had to return one of them, it would be 4.5.   And if you were to read the referenced post above, you will see that I am not alone in this assessment..

 

16 hours ago, micstatic said:

All the naysayers will fall into the distant memory I predict.  Once the bugs are killed we've got a really good sim to look forward to guys.  

 

17 hours ago, Sethos said:

Terrible analogy for this situation, as v5 works just fine, has issues like any other piece of software. Did you also know, all those "new" products you buy are sometimes faulty or have a higher failure rate than expected. That's why they have an RMA department, you have returns, that's why they bring out updated iterations and versions of the same product, plus they use all the knowledge for their next product. It's the cycle of everything, nothing is perfect. 

I think we have a case here of a very short memory of reality. First, there are bugs/failures from many years ago in ESP, that still are not fixed, so to say this HF or a series through version 5.7 will fix basics like the runway lighting or terrain elevation, or more complex ATC issues are not as likely. I would love to be wrong about this. 

Remember that we are talking about a single - stand alone product - not enhanced by add-on's. Yes this ESP legacy is based around and relies upon 3rd parties, but this is proving to be just as much a problem as it is a good thing. Endless HF's and updates and new versions of something that remains so familiar when it come to the same issues for decades. 

Snowfalcon is correct that this would not happen if we had to go to the LM store to purchase P3D. The memory I have is: FS1-FSX progressed enough for us to justify the $20-$70 that we paid for a new version, but P3D after all this time has left it up to 3PP to carry a lot of (too much!!) weight. This should be recognized more than it actually is. 

I in no way want to take anything away from LM for carrying us through, but 3PP have not been able to fix ATC, weather, AI behavior, and many other things adequately, given the vast amount of time that has passed.

My P3D4.5 experience has carried me through thanks to several aircraft/scenery/utility developers, but after all this time version 4.5 and now v5 remains full of very important inadequacies that take a back seat over and over and over. Its way old. 

Here is hoping that MSFS can break this chain and possibly pass this new legacy over to LM for the formal school/ military market as an affordable platform, one that truly fixes basic fundamentals of aviation.

Lets let 3rd parties move on to bigger things to further enhance a very complete simulator, not fix the flaws!. 

3 hours ago, Farlis said:

So if one buys again to try whether the issues are fixed there will be no second refund if one finds they are not fixed?

Well...

You can try, but you have been warned.

3 hours ago, JoeFackel said:

Dude ... how many companys do you know offering refunds for entertainment software?

Haven't you heard that P3D v5 is NO for entertainment purposes? 😀

The best way to deal with this issue of refunds is to simply try the dev version for $10.

30 days should give me enough time to test without the need to ask for a refund.

1 hour ago, pracines said:

I think we have a case here of a very short memory of reality. 

I think people's memories are just fine and you're talking about a completely different issue than a comment about a particular release being bad. Let's not obfuscate people's comments with irrelevant rants, that's poor form. 

Edited April 23, 20206 yr by Sethos

2 hours ago, Sethos said:

I think people's memories are just fine and you're talking about a completely different issue than a comment about a particular release being bad. Let's not obfuscate people's comments with irrelevant rants, that's poor form. 

Hi Sethos, thank you for responding.

I'm pretty sure you did not comprehend what I wrote...I will try to help you understand.

Good or bad is relative - this is supposed to be a serious flight simulator, and I base my position on this...shouldn't we all?

Its pretty bad when one is on a 4 hour flight to suddenly encounter a microburst from Neptune (12,000+ knots) on short final; An inexcusable blunder at this level! 

I'm certain there are more simmers unhappy with this release than I can remember since P3D has existed; backwards, likely because too much stock put into trusky, waves and PBR. If they improved ATC with new features and had some remaining bugs this would be acceptable because its applicable to aviation, but graphical and other technical issues are par for the course for getting away from what mattered long ago. It is much better to stay at 1080p and have ATC and AI that behaves at least somewhat realistically, but no, we have PBR, 4K, and stupid AI/ATC. A silly game for kids to ooooh and ahhh over. 

Irrelevant? rant? No. You may be too young to remember when the main flight sim platform was being IMPROVED with things (aviation realism) that matter (NOT PBR!) year by year. ESP ATC has not changed at all in 17 years, and how about turbo prop characteristics. Many people have listed many other things through the years and they remain unfixed - even ignored for reasons that are not good enough. 

 LM has had since 2009/2010 to at least improve ATC ( and many other things! ) a little - they have been told about this over and over. 

If you think you did comprehend what I said:

You can make excuses for them all you want, you can think that this make you an "understanding" or "reasonable" person but in my view that only makes you complicit in the stagnation...poor form that is sending the flight sim community to the poor farm with not enough to show for it! 

Something something the price of tea in China. 

1 hour ago, pracines said:

I'm certain there are more simmers unhappy with this release than I can remember since P3D has existed

 

Every release has had its issues.. how else did we get to V4.5. HF3?

Edited April 23, 20206 yr by Bert Pieke

IMHO one of the main things we have going for us is that it is LM we're dealing with. They have always been responsive to suggestions and issues and have been quick to identify and rectify the problem. To me this has been the worst release as to severity of bugs but I have no worry at all that LM will fix the issues quickly.

The thing is, when it works right V5 is a thing of beauty. I'm really impressed with what they've done. Not perfect but another step up.

 

Vic

1 hour ago, pracines said:

Hi Sethos, thank you for responding.

I'm pretty sure you did not comprehend what I wrote...I will try to help you understand.

 

I'm pretty sure he did comprehend.

23 hours ago, regis9 said:

Have you ever been a beta tester?  Beta testers don’t get to make the call on what gets fixed before a release.

Super lazy then by LM to not check first. No wonder P3d has had dozens upon dozens of new versions, updates and hot fixes. 

I like P3D and I won’t go to X-plane 🙂 It is necessary to support the developer

2 minutes ago, BMW969 said:

I like P3D and I won’t go to X-plane 🙂 It is necessary to support the developer

Well I doubt LM needs our money, but I do like v5 and trust the issues will be dealt with quickly and I am NOT a fan of XPlane.

If a masterpiece is created for money, this is not a masterpiece!)