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Lockheed Martin VS Dovetail Games ?

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Or is it really Skunkworks VS Steam (pure distribution) LOL.

 

What is Dovetail to the aeronautics industry ? Any chance they might pump out a 64bit FSX before Prepar3d ? Prepar3d has already vastly improved the visuals, stability and performance of flight simulation with its FSX license. 

 

Maybe these are truly complementary platforms... game oriented flight vs professional/student flight training ? Is this the real point of offering FSX variations ?

 

One thing is certain, competition will most certainly accelerate development of flight simulation software ;)

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That's really doubtful my friend. I think it's far more likely to shakedown like this:

  1. Prepar3D: Serious Professional Simulator
  2. FSX: Entertainment
  3. FSX Steam: Clowning Around the Skies

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I don't think we can judge Dovetail until they release their own flight simulator based on Microsoft's tech. They're not allowed to do much to FSX.

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I don't think we can judge Dovetail until they release their own flight simulator based on Microsoft's tech. They're not allowed to do much to FSX.

LOL....I think we can judge them just fine. They are a company that seems to buy up dead end trash and squeeeeezs the last possible penny out of it. But.....just the thought of them beating anyone to the release of a 64 bit Flight Sim was worth a great laugh tonight. Please don't be offended by the laugh. It is just that Dovetail is not likely to come close to that.

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How many of these threads about Dovetail/Steam do we need? It's totally out-of-hand. My suggestions to the mods is to simply refer the poster to any of the many existing threads and delete all the new ones. End of rant.....

 

Doug

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That's really doubtful my friend. I think it's far more likely to shakedown like this:

  1. Prepar3D: Serious Professional Simulator
  2. FSX: Entertainment
  3. FSX Steam: Clowning Around the Skies

 

 

4. Goat Simulator (because they couldn't figure out FSX: Steam Edition)

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P3D, FSX, FSX-steam, are all just variations of the same thing, an engine in which one uses a simulated airplane.  The level of seriousness of the simulation is determined by the realism of the particular airplane addon.  Flying an entertainment grade airplane in P3D isn't "Serious Professional Simulator" just because the P3D lic. says that it is a bigboy really really serious flight simulator.  Likewise, assuming you could run the exact same high quality add on content, I can't see how FSX-Steam automatically means clowning around the sky, the way n4gix put it.  You can clown around the sky in all of them.

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That's really doubtful my friend. I think it's far more likely to shakedown like this:

  1. Prepar3D: Serious Professional Simulator
  2. FSX: Entertainment
  3. FSX Steam: Clowning Around the Skies

 

 

What makes Prear3D a "Serious Professional Simulator" and FSX "Entertainment"?

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What makes Prear3D a "Serious Professional Simulator" and FSX "Entertainment"?

The lawyers.

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Actually, P3D is licensed to be used as part of a professional simulator. There are actual certified simulators out there that are licensed to use P3D, such as Fresca. These simulators are used by flying clubs & such like & cost in excess of $60 000.00

 

Actually, a huge difference between a product, released by a gaming studio & all development stopped 8 years ago, & a product, developed & upgraded about 8 times now, from the professional (not for entertainment) version that was sold to certified users, manufacturs & developers called ESP!

 

If you take the time to have a look around the P3D site, you will realise the difference between gaming & a professional company.

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LOL....I think we can judge them just fine. They are a company that seems to buy up dead end trash and squeeeeezs the last possible penny out of it. But.....just the thought of them beating anyone to the release of a 64 bit Flight Sim was worth a great laugh tonight. Please don't be offended by the laugh. It is just that Dovetail is not likely to come close to that.

 

No, we can't. As it has been said multiple times, Microsoft have placed restrictions on how much they can interfere with FSX. It would be silly to think that Dovetail would be allowed to make such a big change like 64-bit.

 

Until they release their own flight simulator, nobody knows what they can really do in the flight simulation department.

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My idea of a professional simulator is the NASA-derived engine that drives the Majestic Dash 8. That to me screams professionalism, not cloud shadows, HDR, or whatever eye candy Lockheed is dangling in front of "professionals" (are flight schools really sold by screenshots of orbx compatability? The license agreement and branding are in direct contrast.). I have no idea what P3D could add to the professionalism of flight sim unless they really go balls to the wall with the flight dynamics and systems - and therefore break every current add-on we currently have which attempted to fill in those pieces themselves.

 

When I see the words P3D or Dovetail now I literally get nauseas. With all the amazing tech being released in addons (my sim is exponentially as cool and has twice as many fps as I had three years ago) we should be happier and happier and everyone seems more miserable. Wake me up when there is a retrofit of the fsx dynamic engine using the special sauce in the q400.

 

Just my two pennies. I'll go back to flying now and shut up.

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Until they release their own flight simulator, nobody knows what they can really do in the flight simulation department.

This isn't entirely true, we can see how they approach there current simulators.  They already have released Train Simulator and Fishing/Boredom Simulator.  I only have personal experience of the first of these products.  

 

I have owned train simulator since the first MS release and quite honestly i would struggle to tell the annual releases apart, they make very minor improvements, normally related to graphics and give the engine away for free always accompanied by bundles of add-ons of, shall we say, variable quality.

 

It's possibly worth noted that while the graphics on TS2015 are pretty good they are also very confined, once you move away from the tracks, things get bad quickly.

 

I would expect something very much like MS Flight and designed for the same market.

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It is actually quite true. We have no idea whatsover what kind of flight sim is going to come from guys who markets Trains & Goat simulations.

 

As said before, they claim that they will be using MS's flight (small f) technology, so, it could be technology from FS2004, Combat Flight Sim or even Flight!

 

It is also noted that Dovetail's market IS the gaming market.

We will see...

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The problem with Flight wasn't DLC. Flight simmers have embraced DLC, or addons, as we call it. The problem with Flight was the closed nature of the sim. With only one publisher of DLC (Microsoft), quality went down the toilet, and we got cockpitless freeware priced at $20. Had the sim been open to addon developers, it might have been a success, or at least less of a failure.

 

Unfortunately, Dovetail's business model is self-published DLC. This has worked well for their train simulator, so there's a big risk that after FSX Steam Edition, they'll just create "Dovetail Flight".

 

Whatever they do, they'll never be "competitors" with LM and P3D. We're not the target audience of P3D. We're only allowed to use it because LM turn a blind eye to the activity.

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This isn't entirely true, we can see how they approach there current simulators.  They already have released Train Simulator and Fishing/Boredom Simulator.  I only have personal experience of the first of these products.  

 

I have owned train simulator since the first MS release and quite honestly i would struggle to tell the annual releases apart, they make very minor improvements, normally related to graphics and give the engine away for free always accompanied by bundles of add-ons of, shall we say, variable quality.

 

It's possibly worth noted that while the graphics on TS2015 are pretty good they are also very confined, once you move away from the tracks, things get bad quickly.

 

I would expect something very much like MS Flight and designed for the same market.

 

The thing is, it's impossible to compare them to Lockheed Martin as developers until we see what they can do with Microsoft's tech. So far they've done way different things, but now they're essentially working on the same tech (FSX/P3D), and until Dovetail show us the result of this work, we can't judge them.

 

Also Dovetail said Flight felt too dumbed-down for them, which means we might be seeing another authentic flight simulator from them.

 

We have no idea whatsover what kind of flight sim is going to come from guys who markets Trains & Goat simulations.

 

Goat Simulator wasn't made by Dovetail.

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MARKETS not made! 

Dunno how you can say same tech as FSX/P3D!

I'm sure you are aware that technically, although the engines are similar, FSX was last updated about 8 years ago, & Accelleration came out about then as well, & P3D is on version 2.4! Thats about 6-7 updates/mods releases etc as compared to FSX.  

 

Again, lol ...  re an authentic sim from Dovetail. It will be interesting to see what happens when that comes out, & what the current add-on devs do, unless Dovetail has partnered with any. 

So, in the future, serious devs are going to develop for FS9 (some still do), FSX, FSX-Steam & some totally new one with no history, no nothing?

Interestingly, Steam has a Flight forum (since about 2010).

Remember as well, MS's flight engine could be anything! (FS9, CFS, Flight) 

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Actually, P3D is licensed to be used as part of a professional simulator. There are actual certified simulators out there that are licensed to use P3D, such as Fresca. These simulators are used by flying clubs & such like & cost in excess of $60 000.00

 

Actually, a huge difference between a product, released by a gaming studio & all development stopped 8 years ago, & a product, developed & upgraded about 8 times now, from the professional (not for entertainment) version that was sold to certified users, manufacturs & developers called ESP!

 

If you take the time to have a look around the P3D site, you will realise the difference between gaming & a professional company.

 

Any simulation software can be the basis for a BATD or AATD IAW AC 61-136A http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_61-136A.pdf. Precision Flight Controls, Inc is one company that builds AATDs based on Xplane https://www.flypfc.com/?/training-systems/cr-12/. ELITE uses their own custom software and REDBIRD uses something that looks like ESP. FRASCA uses TruVision™ Global as their platform. http://www.frasca.com/index.php/components-services/visual-systems.

 

P3D websites states, "Acceptable uses of Prepar3D include Simulation, Learning, and Training," but the act of purchasing P3D and slapping it onto your personnel computer does not make it an authorized Aviation Training Device in which you can log time IAW FAR part 61. You need a letter of authorization (LOA) which must be near or displayed with the device and for anything other than instrument currency an Authorized Instructor must be present.

 

What P3D can be used for off the shelf (and in fact any simulation software) is Cockpit Procedures Training or what we call ground training or familiarization. I have used FSX in the past to maintain proficiency, gain further hands on time with certain avionics under simulated flight, and have even used it to prepare for the flight portion of a job interview.

 

I am sure Microsoft lawyers would quickly state that is not the purpose for FSX, but software is a tool and like any tool how you approach and use it will determine its value.

 

Finally, since BATD and AATDs do not allow you to take a checkride in the sim I have a hard time calling them "professional simulators" in such that a Full Flight Simulator (FFS) is. They are basically in a place between ground trainers yet below Flight Simulators asTraining Devices.

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I'm going to make it simple:

 

Lockheed Martin - Reason why we are all able to live the lives we do today.

 

Dovetail Games - Goat simulator.

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Lockheed Martin - Reason why we are all able to live the lives we do today.

 

And whats that?...

 

FSX= Use PMDG aircraft     Prepar3d=NOT

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And whats that?...

 

I expect it's actually more to do with some tenuous link between their military production and 'freedom'tm

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I stand corrected, but did PMDG originally say that their Addons are for entertainment. Yet another.. PMDG is the best since sliced bread. I'm sure that there are many out there that prefer props, etc. PMDF is not the only ultimate player out there. Sigh!

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4. Goat Simulator (because they couldn't figure out FSX: Steam Edition)

Well, they  could release an FSX version equivalent to Desert Bus. I'm sure that would create a Christmas Bonanza!

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