Use what you have and when it's materially changed to be worth the time and hassle to reinstall everything, wait for 3PD's to release installers, etc, then upgrade.  V4 sounds perfect if it involves 64 bit & modern DirectX optimization, even if that means 2018 or beyond.  If the idea that P3D's intended main market is commercial and military, then we are clearly & only the paying beta testers for their ongoing development.   Fortunately for them there appear to be a few folks willing to help out. 

Book a few hours in a 747 Sim and you will find that if we are truly beta testers then we are very well paid even after giving them a couple hundred dollars.

IIRC, Wes Bard said early on that their (LM) objective was to get the most they could out of the 32bit platform before moving on to 64bit. I doubt that direction has changed. There are a lot of things that could be improved in the 32 bit version that would probably affect VAS for the better.

 

Anyone remember the little change they made to the veggie class that eased the pressure on VAS?

 

I'm guessing but I think v3 will still be 32 bit but hopefully a great 32 bit release!

 

Vic

Is there a way to find out which programs are affected and if so when they are patched. rather than installing the Hotfix and running into problems?

 

Only your 3rd party content providers can give you that information as it's not something LM can "detect" ... it can vary based on what LM change but HF4 doesn't appear to have any significant breaking changes ... in my case ASN, Orbx, Virtuali will need updates but I believe Orbx and Virtuali have an auto update process in place so when an update is released they will triggers their own updates automatically.  ASN has Beta downloads you can get but not sure if they are HF4 aware yet ... so far most 3rd party have been very responsive, some even updating BEFORE HF is released, worse case is a few days.

 

My recommendation for install HF's is to wait until you know all the 3rd party content you have has been updated as needed, then install the HF.

 

Cheers, Rob.

Book a few hours in a 747 Sim and you will find that if we are truly beta testers then we are very well paid even after giving them a couple hundred dollars.

Yes we are truly beta testers.  Remember, we're not the target market, at least that's what is said always.  We pay, and pay a lot when you factor in hardware, sim & add ons.   That doesn't at all imply it isn't worth the price of admission, that's up to users to determine.  I'd love to know how much revenue LM pulls in from P3D to public versus commercial/military licenses.  That would tell a lot about how LM views the public user base.  

 

The real target market may not be as willing to be tag along beta testers to the degree folks here might be, so for a modest price for the basic sim public desktop flyers can enjoy what's there, while their ultimate role from LM's persecutive is just that, beta testing.   What everyone here is hoping for is that they continue to support the desktop public user moving forward.  Seems they likely will so far.  All just idle prattle...

 

And I appreciate P3D a whole bunch so no need to compare against a 747 sim, so much so I haven't bothered to move from 2.3.  Put another way, not interested so much in beta testing.  Good 'nuf until something really meaningful appears.  64 bit and the promise of optimized for DX12 code comes to mind.

 

 

What if the v3.0 32bit version didn't OOM (or was much more difficult to OOM) and everyone was able to salvage their existing 3rd party software investments ... would you still be disappointed?

 

I haven't gotten an OOM since the infamous version, what was it? 2.2? The change to me is symbolic more than tangible. A switch to 64 bit shows that LM has the programming horsepower to make P3D far and away the best sim out there. I don't know if you have been watching that carefully, but XPlane has gotten some decent 3rd party app support as of late, including a decent weather engine in FSGRW. I would probably consider switching back to XP if Version 3 of P3D is still 32 bit.

Having  worked for the Defense Department for over 30 years I have attended many military technical conferences, and I can tell you that LM has flight simulation programs that will blow your socks off. But they are not intended as an introduction to aviation, LM is developing P3D to help get young folks interested in aviation, if you do not have new pilots coming up through the ranks they will have no one to fly their multi-million $$ planes. A company the size of LM can affort to break even or lose money on something like P3D but if it helps recruit new pilots it pays for itself......and what better place to test this new marketing tool for getting folks interesting in aviation then with us B) win win for both!

 

Cheers

Martin

Having  worked for the Defense Department for over 30 years I have attended many military technical conferences, and I can tell you that LM has flight simulation programs that will blow your socks off. But they are not intended as an introduction to aviation, LM is developing P3D to help get young folks interested in aviation, if you do not have new pilots coming up through the ranks they will have no one to fly their multi-million $$ planes. A company the size of LM can affort to break even or lose money on something like P3D but if it helps recruit new pilots it pays for itself......and what better place to test this new marketing tool for getting folks interesting in aviation then with us B) win win for both!

 

Cheers

Martin

Thank you so much for this post. I have for a long time wanted to make these exact post but never quite got the words right. Retired AF guy here and yes there are some amazing things out there. Public Relations and keeping folks interested in aviation is money well spent. Think Blue Angels and ThunderBirds! Not only is this a gold mine for future aviators but Drone Pilots and all sorts of careers are promoted by this hobby. It's hard for folks to understand the value and power of the PR dollar for the future if they work for small companies. Any way one of the best P3D post I have ever seen. Folks...Plez listen to him...he is so correct.

Thank you so much for this post. I have for a long time wanted to make these exact post but never quite got the words right. Retired AF guy here and yes there are some amazing things out there. Public Relations and keeping folks interested in aviation is money well spent. Think Blue Angels and ThunderBirds! Not only is this a gold mine for future aviators but Drone Pilots and all sorts of careers are promoted by this hobby. It's hard for folks to understand the value and power of the PR dollar for the future if they work for small companies. Any way one of the best P3D post I have ever seen. Folks...Plez listen to him...he is so correct.

Excellent posts, along with all preceding. This is an exciting time. More to come. Given the efficiencies that DX12 will usher in (from the little I understand), I can see (as a distant observer) how there could be improvements in the way that P3D handles address use.

 

Perhaps the ability to increase draw calls by a factor of 6 with current hardware will reduce the amount of data the sim has to process at a given time, thereby reducing memory requirements. This is just a guess by a rank amateur. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I would appreciate education from those who have a working understanding of this. I find it quite fascinating.

 

Thanks

I would like to ask another questio, why still compatible add ons rather than native ones. LM did a,lot,of optomization and i assume there will be a lot more to come. But what is this optimization wprth when the latest fancy add on will only use only a quarter or a third of its potential?

 

Im still impressed abput the performance of the NGX running with 25-27 FPS (SLI system) at a major hub like KPHX or KDEN. Imagine how it  would work if these add ons sceneries where P3D2 native? I can imagine that a customer call for native products would be a pain for the devs as they would have to produce 2 products rather than only one which works for both sims.

 

As P3D is under a constant development wouldnt it make sense to start with 100% native scenery add ons which take full advantage of P3Ds optimized code?  Now that nVidia brought up an SLI profile LM is still optimizing (at least it sounds like  ) the system, lmho the next logic step is 100% native. Out of the box P3D2 is a killer sim, the add ons we have and love will slow it down and bring it to its knees. 64bit will not change that fact unless the scenery devs start qith their part of optimization.

Aircraft devs already stated it PMDG, VRSimulations, Iris to name a few now where are the scenery devs? There will be point where one has to decide which way to go. As P3D development continues and is pushed further as,a fellow cuatomer and supporter,of this industry i ask the devs to rethink their poloicies eother stick with FSX, do both (i would pay a higher price) or just stick to where the future is heading...

 

 

I would probably consider switching back to XP if Version 3 of P3D is still 32 bit.

This is a valid point. If v3 is still 32bit then there does not seem to be much room to grow the application. Also, if it is optimized to run a lot more data through, then wouldn't that mean that OOM's would occur more frequently?

 

I would love to see LM do what Laminar did with X-Plane and that was to have both a 32 and a 64 bit option. That way third party companies could generate new revenue with the innovative products that could be created for a 64 bit environment.

Imho we will have a 32 bit V3 and a 64 bit V4 to choose from within 2 years....

If V4 might be 64bit, I'd rather wait for V5 where all the bugs will be sorted.

Having  worked for the Defense Department for over 30 years I have attended many military technical conferences, and I can tell you that LM has flight simulation programs that will blow your socks off. But they are not intended as an introduction to aviation, LM is developing P3D to help get young folks interested in aviation, if you do not have new pilots coming up through the ranks they will have no one to fly their multi-million $$ planes. A company the size of LM can affort to break even or lose money on something like P3D but if it helps recruit new pilots it pays for itself......and what better place to test this new marketing tool for getting folks interesting in aviation then with us B) win win for both!

 

Cheers

Martin

 

I agree and with the  cost of primary flight training today, the person using a good sim can get quite a bit of experience at a minimal cost. Not to say that a sim replaces flight training, but for getting a handle on procedures, IFR, etc, it is worth it's weight in gold for the person wanting to make a career in aviation. I seriously doubt of LM is using P3D as a revenue source. 

Imho we will have a 32 bit V3 and a 64 bit V4 to choose from within 2 years....

 

I agree, there will probably be both versions operating at the same time. 

All the speculation and hand wringing reminds one of the old MS Days... LM is certainly not MS and have done wonders with old MS basis.

We are all beneficiaries of LM taking the bull by the horns to turn old basis into viable basis. Why expect them to behave like MS when they've obviously surpassed the original?

 

Those of us who beta tested FSX remember the nightmare over DX10 Preview and the slideshow performance on ancient hardware.

Those days are thankfully over and we appreciate LM's due diligence at this point and are sure P3D will only improve over time. :rolleyes:

P3D 2 is still highly CPU dependent - let's hope v3 will address that balance of gpu/cpu